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Why don't most people like "Muppet Treasure Island"?

Discussion in 'Classic Muppets' started by muppet_fan_1, Apr 29, 2002.

  1. muppet_fan_1

    muppet_fan_1 Well-Known Member

    Persoanlly I loved the movie! mainly because it was the first Muppet Movie or Muppet anything I ever saw. IT was what got me attracted to the Muppets in the first place. I'm not dissing on anyone for NOT liking it...I just want to know why.:(
  2. Lu775

    Lu775 Well-Known Member

    Everyone I know likes it.
    Who are these wierdos who are telling you they don't?
    ah well, each to his (or her) own
  3. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    Like it? I loved it!! It was one of the few post "Rocky Horror" things that Tim Curry did that was entertaining.
  4. Gonzo

    Gonzo Well-Known Member

    Hiya Megan,

    I'm in Utah too--so are "Dr. Bombay" and SuperGrover/Travis....there are more of us around than I thought, eh?

    Anyway, I personally loved "Muppet Treasure Island," but I also know a lot of people who didn't. Their main problems with it seem to be that the Muppets are playing other characters, and not themselves---i.e., Fozzie Bear isn't as dumb as the Squire Trelawney character he's playing, and so there isn't much "new" development between the characters. It also came out while Disney was still trying to own the Muppets, which freaked a lot of the old-timers around here out. Including me. Sometimes. But I still liked the flick.

    I think it was an excellent movie, with some good music and hilarious moments, and I enjoyed it a whole lot more than I did "Muppets From Space."

  5. muppet_fan_1

    muppet_fan_1 Well-Known Member

    Hey thanx a lot for all your responses. That was just one of those questions that needed to be answered. I thought it was one of mankinds greatest mysteries but "Gonzo" helped clear it up. That makes a lot of sense. Thanx again!
  6. Jessie

    Jessie Well-Known Member

    The only reason it erked me was of the annoying kid in the movie. But I loved the rest of it. (We've got cabin fever!)
  7. frogboy4

    frogboy4 Inactive Member

    About Muppet Treasure Island

    I guess I would be seen as ome of those people with a dissenting opinion on Muppet Treaure Island. Don't get me wrong, I did enjoy it and I believe it so be the best film of what I refer to as "the second trilogy", (The Muppet Movie, The GreatMuppet Caper and The Muppets Take Manhattan being the first trilogy). It's hard to beat the Jim Henson films, but it did beat one of them in my view.

    I suspect that many of the people who have panned Muppet Treasure Island probably grew up on the first trilogy and find the post-Jim films to be somewhat inferior. I would have to agree with that. It isn't that the second trilogy films aren't good, it's just that Jim was the center of the Muppets and so many things changed after his death.

    I'd rate the Muppet films in almost chronological order. This is just my opinion:
    1 The Muppet Movie (the original, the classic and cameos galore)
    2 The Great Muppet Caper (the best produced Muppet film ever, great musical numbers)
    3 Muppet Treasure Island (a noble attempt at retelling a classic)
    4 The Muppets Take Manhattan (not as entertaining as the first two in the original trilogy)
    5 The Muppet Christmas Carol (a bleak, dark, but interesting return to films after nearly a decade's absence)
    6 Muppets From Space (a terrible mess, but interesting attempt to show the private side of the Muppets and the film debut of Pepe, okay)

    I do find it weak that they remade two classic tales rather than just making them Muppet movies, but many people disagree with me. Many people also find Muppets From Space and The Muppet Christmas Carol to be their faves. Eeek! I don't get it, but 'to each their own' I guess. Got to respect the opinions of others. :)

    So to sum it up, Muppet Treasure Island is my third fave, but I also find it to be quite inferior to the first two Muppet films. You've seen them, right?:D
  8. Jessie

    Jessie Well-Known Member


    AHH! MCC is my favourite Muppet Movie! I found it so witty and touching. Don't you tear up when Kermit returns home after Robin (I mean Tiny Tim) dies?
    But I agree, MFS was a mess. Hulk Hogan, okay.
    *Work hard and be constructive! It is the American way! (Hey, Sam, pssst) Oh. Ahem. It is the BRITISH way.*
  9. frogboy4

    frogboy4 Inactive Member

    MCC just didn't seem Muppety to me. It was interesting and different (and I guess the Muppets are known for being interesting and different) but I can't see it as one of my faves. It didn't seem right.

    I remember seeing the original Muppet Movie when I was very little (showing my age). :) I guess a fan's preferences for these movies can sometimes coincide with which one was the first they saw. I could be wrong, though. I am betting that MCC was the fist Muppet film you saw or viewed in the theater. There are many in the MCC camp and any Muppet film is a good Muppet film! Well, MFS did make me lose faith in humanity for a week, but it plays much better on video. LOL! That's another story.
  10. Jessie

    Jessie Well-Known Member


    You're right! MCC was the 1st muppet movie I saw. I guess you're right--we tend to stick with the "classics" according to which ones are classics for us. I didn't see the originals like MTM until much later, and I guess they were sort of ahead of my time in terms of the guest appearances. My parents like those best though.
    *You're a little absent minded, Spirit.*--*No, I'm a large absent-minded spirit!*
  11. dan

    dan Active Member

    I saw the Muppet Movie in the theater when I was little and loved it. I watched it again last night actually.
    Muppet Treasure Island and Christmas Carol don't come anywhere NEAR being as good as the first three movies to me. I LOVE the Muppets, but I'm not even going to buy them when they come out on dvd. (Although I did sign the petition for them to be in widescreen) Those films just disappointed me like crazy. No Rowlf, Scooter, band. And I know all about Jim and Richard, so don't give me the reasons why those characters weren't there.

    The Muppets playing other characters aren't half as interesting as when they are themselves.

    I HATED that kid in MTI. Oh man.

    And I don't think you can have any kind of a good Muppet movie where Kermit and Fozzie never interact(MCC)

    But I LOVE the first 3 and MFS was okay. At least I laughed a little.:)
  12. frogboy4

    frogboy4 Inactive Member

    I really agree with most of that. I really prefer to see the Muppets play themselves. And the Kermit-Miss Piggy, Kermit-Fozzie dynamics have changed much since the death of Jim. I really feel that has some part in why they don't have much valuable screentime together these days. I miss Scooter and Rowlf too.

    MTI and TMTM run pretty head-to-head with me, but MTI wins out in my view. TMTM just seemed to be of less quality than the first two films and MTI had some interesting bits. That did annoy me too so we agree on that.

    All Muppet films pale in comparison to the first two. They really are the most mature and well crafted films of the series in my opinion.
  13. Gonzo

    Gonzo Well-Known Member


    Just wanted to say I agree with your order of favoritism in the 6 Muppet flicks, although I do usually rank TGMC above TMM, just because it's so much FUN to watch!

    Regarding it being "pretty weak" for the Muppets to make movies based on classic books, I think it's completely natural for the Muppets to be the ones to do it--from the very beginning, they've done parodies of fairy tales, classic literature, etc., and the big screen adaptations seem a completely natural outgrowth of that. I also remember reading that these were projects that Jim was originally contemplating when considering the Muppets' return to the big screen.

    Of course, now that those are done, I'm hoping for some sort of Renaissance that can overcome the damage done by Muppets From Space, and we can have more stories with the Muppets being "themselves," and we can get some more nice character growth, development, and some funny stuff.

  14. Fozzie Bear

    Fozzie Bear Well-Known Member



    Well, as a puppeteer who prefers that Muley is regarded as his own individual self (I get so mad when people refer to me as Muley...he's much better looking than me!!), I think one of the things about MTI and MCC is that folks forget that it isn't Steve playing Kermit being Kermit or Frank playing Fozzie being Fozzie; it's the individual personalities known as Kermit and Fozzie in a PLAY (practically) PERFORMING characters, not being themselves.

    MCC was more a Michael Caine film starring the Muppets, and I think that's where some of its glory was lost...plus it was overseen by Disney, right? (Boy oh boy, am I gonna get it for THAT line...) :D

    The great thing about Muppets From Space to me was that we were back to Kermit being Kermit, but I don't know what was up with Fozzie...he wasn't much himself hardly (though the Rain coat and hat in the shower was funnee). I felt a loss with the cameos, especially the Hulk Hogan cameo which will really date the film (which prior films--excuse the clothing and hair styles--aren't really dated). I also was disappointed that there were no original musical numbers.

    I think we're probably going to see things heading back in time with the way the JHC and its writers treat our Muppet friends. Once they get Janice, Scooter, Dr. Teeth, Piggy, Fozzie, and a few others revoiced, we'll be back to normal. I just can't see why it's taking them so long to do it. After all, I'm available for hire, and I'm sure there are millions of others, too.

    That's all I have to rant about. Wonder who's gonna bite me for that Disney statement, tho! LOL!

  15. Thog

    Thog Well-Known Member

    I remember when the Muppet Movie came out in 1979. I made my parents take me to see it 5 times. And to this day it's still my fave. I agree with Frogboy about growing up on the first 3 movies. I think that I was at just the right age when the muppets were still very popular.

    BTW: Wasn't MCC orignally going to be a made for tv movie?:confused:
  16. frogboy4

    frogboy4 Inactive Member

    Although the Muppets have always done parodies in shorter projects, I found it a little tiresome for the characters to keep up the charade for an entire 90 minutes. If Jim had helmed the projecs, maybe they would have worked better, but I stilll stand by my preference of non-book movies. The Muppets should have enough clout to demand an original screenplay. And the fact that these Muppetized-remakes were back-to-back made it all the more disappointing, but I did enjoy them. I feel they would have played better as television movies.

    I agree that the Muppets need to find their way back to what they were and find their "new direction" from there instead of tossing aside all of their history and becoming bland and trendy as in MFS. They were just trying too hard - I felt Grouper was behind the changes! LOL! We need our classic characters back. We all apreciate Jim and Richard, but it's time for their characters to return in full force.

    Yeah, I'm glad that I grew up when I did. I was just the right age to appreciate the Muppet classics first hand! You know, even when I was a kid I opted for The Muppet Show over Sesame Street (there were too many non-puppet parts in SS those days).
  17. Jessie

    Jessie Well-Known Member

    Ahem. I know everyone is going to attack me for this...but I guess the reason why I liked MCC so much was that the muppets were playing other people, yet they still brought with them some of their own characteristics. I don't really like Fozzie (go ahead and shoot me, :0( I'm sorry but I just don't. I've really tried to convince myself that I do but it doesn't work) Perhaps its because the first time I really saw Fozzie was in MFS and the whole "I need to go to the little bear's room, mom says 'no exceptions'" thing kind of annoyed me. So the fact that he was FozzieWig in that movie was cool, in my opinion. Maybe if I had seen the movies in the proper order I would like him more. I do like him a little more in the oldies though.
  18. frogboy4

    frogboy4 Inactive Member

    Eeek! Okay - I must state that the Fozzie in Muppets From Space was the Stepford Fozzie! That has been a major topic of discussion on the board. All the characters in MFS were flat characatures of themselves. To judge anything about the Muppets from that misguided film would be a mistake. To get who Fozzie is you would need to watch classic episodes of The Muppet Show. I have met one person in my life that didn't like Fozzie, but to me he's like that person who keeps trying no matter what anyone else says and that's a good thing. :) I feel that in the Muppet pecking order he is just as important as Miss Piggy, tieing her for the number 2 spot. As a purist I really wish people would see these films in order. Have you seen them all?
  19. EmmyMik

    EmmyMik Well-Known Member

    My $0.02

    Well, I am going to pop in here and offer my two cents.

    Of all of the Muppet movies, MTI is my least favorite. It just doesn't offer me anything. The Muppets have already played other characters, so that's not new. The songs aren't spectacular (they're good, but not enough to make me get up, reach over and pop the tape in my VCR), and then there's the humor. It's funny, but again, not enough to make me "un-lazy".

    I don't own any Muppet DVDs yet, but if I ever do, this will be the last one I buy, if at all...
  20. frogboy4

    frogboy4 Inactive Member

    Well it is technically the second last Muppet movie DVD release so it will be among the last bought DVD for even the die hard fan. Seriously, I get your point, but I can't see how MFS was any better? There were no original songs and most of the jokes (aside from Pepe's) fell pretty flat.

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