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Why don't we split a full roll of fleece?

Discussion in 'Puppet Building and Performing' started by vaderdentist, Jun 1, 2003.

  1. vaderdentist

    vaderdentist Member

    Hey guys......... I know alot of us are searching for Antron fleece and I figured, why don't we get several of us and pitch in to get a full roll and save a bundle of money. For cut orders it's like 13 bucks per yard............a whole roll is only 8 dollars per yard, but it costs like 400 bucks for a whole roll. That's roughly 55 yards per roll. If she split it like 11 yards each, that comes to 88 bucks a piece rather than spending 30 percent more per yard. I'd be happy to buy the roll up front and split it off to you guys. Let me know via email:
  2. BorkBork

    BorkBork Member

    I'd love to do this, but i don't live near the rest of you in US or Canada, i live in sweden...anyway i just ordered 5yards, but if you don't mind sending some to sweden, i'd be glad to be apart of a roll sometime later, when i'm out of antron here :)

  3. vaderdentist

    vaderdentist Member

    If I get enough interest I would be happy to send it there.
    Dave :)
  4. Gobo_Tron2

    Gobo_Tron2 Member

    I don't have the cash for this but just out of curiosity, how does a company justify adding $3 per yard just for somebody to go "snip"? Talk about highway robbery. Is there some real complicated procedure I don't know about?
  5. Buck-Beaver

    Buck-Beaver Well-Known Member

    Hi Gobo,

    I realize you may not be aware of this, but employees of Georgia Stage -which sells antron fleece - frequent this forum and often help out some of the builders here and taking that in to consideration I think it's inappropriate to categorize their prices as "highway robbery."

    In fact, I think Georgia Stage provides an extremely valuable service to the puppet building community and I do think that their prices are more than fair. If Georgia Stage wasn't offering their service most builders would have a lot of trouble ordering fleece because they can't afford a whole roll, or they would have to order through smaller outfits like like Puppetstuff which charge even more.

    It's certainly true that you can buy 50 odd yards (a complete roll) and pay less than what Georgia Stage charges. When you purchase whole rolls you're basically buying the fleece wholesale and you should be entitled to a volume discount. It's the same with anything - apples, appliances, magazine subscriptions, etc. Virtually all merchants mark up the cost of goods 100% (if something costs you $50 at Sears it probably cost them $25 to buy it and only $13 or less for the manufacturer to make). It's the way the economy works I'm afraid.
  6. Buck-Beaver

    Buck-Beaver Well-Known Member

    Oh I meant to add that I do think the idea of sharing a roll is great if someone wants to organize it, but the only problem with doing that through a forum like this where members are scattered around the world is that by the time someone organizes everything and the extra shipping charges (and customs fees if the fleece goes out of the U.S.) you're really not saving that much money, maybe a buck or so per yard.

    I know that local communities of puppet builders (sometimes through their local puppet guild) do pool money to buy in bulk and that sort of approach is probably a little easier to manage.
  7. Puppetplanet

    Puppetplanet Member

    I'm in on the roll if it really goes anywhere. :excited:

    In regards to the antron..... it's common practice to mark up an item when selling it retail. It's a business, and business means making money. They have to factor in a portion of the costs for storage of those huge rolls of fabric, overhead (a/c, electric, rent, etc.), costs for those employees wages who are going "snip, snip", and the costs for advertising...... Kathy spends a lot of time visiting these boards to let us know that this item is available to us.

    Yet, they are still cheaper per yard than any other antron provider that I've found so far. Georgia Stage is an awsome company, and Kathy is a wonderful person.... the price is more than worth the customer service and quality of fabric, not to mention they ship FAAAAaaassst!

    -Michele :p
  8. Gobo_Tron2

    Gobo_Tron2 Member

    I wasn't trying to question inflation of prices (retail values) and just how high someone can set a price for. What was getting me was exactly how it was done. I can completely understand the logic in having a flat fee for cutting a roll but increasing the price per yard seemed rather extreme. It'd be like saying that the value of the product magically increased because it had been cut. But anyway I'm not saying you shouldn't buy from them, and I didn't mean to start an argument - I sure didn't expect it when I first posted. lol. Didn't mean to cause a whirlwind about it.
  9. Puppetplanet

    Puppetplanet Member

    No, No, No..... I wasn't getting excited or trying to start an argument at all! (note ernie sticking his tongue out in previous post). I was trying to explain how the price per yard thing worked and why it would be inflated.

    Buck isn't the kind of person to start or even participate in a conflict either. But, take this as kindly as possible...... he is right about the highway robbery comment. It was a bit harsh, though I realize that it's a term used loosely and you probably didn't mean any harm by it. ;)

    I think what we are saying is that Georgia Stage contributes a lot to the puppetry community, they are not just selling fabric by the yard, but Kathy also provides an invaluable service by making helpful suggestions to builders and she keeps a resourse of contacts in the event that someone needs puppet building items that her company doesn't offer. Thats going way beyond the cut by the yard service you get at the big chain stores.

    I would hate for someone new to the forum get the wrong first impression of a company with impecable service. I think thats why Buck and I both felt it was necessary to sort of "stick up" for them. We had no intentions of pointing fingers at you or confronting you in a negetive way. :halo:


    By-the-way.... my spelling really sucks incase anyone hasn't noticed. Must have been all those paper folding puppets I was making in school rather than studying and paying attention. :smirk:
  10. gastage

    gastage New Member

    Again Many Thanks

    Dear Buck and Michele,

    I really have to thank you both for the wonderful compliments on our business and service as well as your kind words about me. I have really enjoyed meeting my puppet customers and learning about the art. I now have "friends" all over the world and it was simply because of a special fabric. Thanks once more for your staunch support.

    :) :) :)

    Best Regards
    GA Stage, Inc.
  11. Jinx

    Jinx Member

    Another thing to consider regarding pricing.

    The higher price does not reflect the cost of cutting the fabric, it reflects the necessity of keeping larger amounts of inventory in stock. If someone buys a lot of product from me, I don't have to count it on my inventory each month, and that saves me money, so I can pass the savings along.

    I sell printed media by the yard, and when a customer wants me to print a single 8 foot banner, I still have to buy a 100' roll. This costs me more up-front, and then I have to sit on that investment until someone else decides that they want something printed on the same media. This can take months to deplete the stock, and meanwhile my money is still tied up the the roll.

    Really the higher price for lesser quantities make perfect economic sense if you look at it from the suppliers' side.

    And even though I have yet to order from gastage, when I'm ready to place my next order I will most definitely be giving Kathy a call!
  12. PaulyPuppets

    PaulyPuppets New Member

    Alternative to Antron Fleece

    Hi, guys. I was reading all the posts about trying to get Antron Fleece, and I wanted to bring a less expensive, and in my opinion (and I stress, it's just MY opinion), a better source. I simply use polar fleece, which you can buy at JOANN FABRICS for only $4.99 per yard (that's the retail sale price, and it seems to be on sale all the time at JOANN's). I love it because it doesn't shed like the antron fleece. When I used to cut the antron fleece, fiber particles would be all over the place, creating a mess and even getting in our throats as we inhaled (cough!). Terrible for me and my little girl, who both have asthma. Then there was the dye process, which was really time consuming and messy. The retail bought (and if you can find it wholesale, even better) polar fleece already comes in a HUGE assortment of colors. It's stretchable, and depending on which side of the material you use, you can even pick out the fuzz with a needle to hide any seams, just like the Antron Fleece. I've been using polar fleece for about 3 years now, and I sell about 15 puppets a week on eBay. Of all my 600 plus costumers so far, no one has EVER complained about the fleece. Yes, Antron fleece is what The Muppets and most TV puppets are made with, and it also looks great. But again, my suggestion is merely for those of you who want to save some money, but still get a nice fleece alternative. ...Pauly :D
    PS: You can check out my eBay store to see puppets made with this polar fleece I'm talking about. Here's the link> http://stores.ebay.com/PUPPETSNSTUFF-PUPPETS
    as well as www.puppetsnstuff.com
  13. PaulyPuppets

    PaulyPuppets New Member

    Oops,...goofed on correct name of the fleece.

    Hi, again, everyone. I was at JOANN FABRICS today, buying more supplies, and I saw that the correct name of the fleece I spoke about was "Alpine Fleece" and "Anti-Pill Fleece". JOANNS also lists it in ads as "Fleece Solids". I'm not sure where I got the name "Polar Fleece" from. At any rate, best of luck with whatever material you choose to help let loose your puppet creativity. ...Pauly :)
  14. Buck-Beaver

    Buck-Beaver Well-Known Member

    That's a very good point about "regular" polar fleece. I think a lot of people get hooked on using antron because they hear that it's what the Muppets have used, no seams, etc. but it's not really necessary - especially when you are just getting started. I don't think I ever worked with until four or five years ago when I was doing some stuff for a TV show and the producers insisted that antron be used. It is a great fabric for TV/video work, but otherwise isn't really necessary.

    Just a word re: fibres in the air when cutting antron; it's a good idea to wear a simple dust mask or respirator (although a respirator isn't really necessary) when cutting high pile fabrics like antron and fake furs, etc.
  15. Puppetplanet

    Puppetplanet Member

    It's been a while, but if I'm not mistaken, polar fleece is the fuzzy stuff that looks like a sweatshirt when it's turned inside out. (you know, the soft cuddly side?)

    Alpine is the thicker stuff that comes in a wider range of colors. Most people use it to make blankets and other winter itmes. You may also recognize it as the stuff you've seen in printed panels and no sew blankets. I haven't used it for puppets in a long time because I discovered that the Anti-Pill has the better type of pile for hiding seams.

    Anti-Pill also comes in a variety of colors, but it can be dyed too. Just keep in mind that it doesn't grab color as well as the antron so it's best to purchase a dye that is actually darker than the color your trying to accomplish.

  16. PaulyPuppets

    PaulyPuppets New Member

    Fleece and BEAR TOWN

    Hey, Buck,
    Back in November, I was hired to build over 40 puppets for a children's home video/dvd. ALL the puppets I built were made with the Alpine fleece. On camera, they looked just as high quality as puppets made with Antron. You're right, I think many of us think that Antron fleece is the only way to go. But it really isn't a necessity as the ONLY option.
    But what I really wanted to tell you, was how much I enjoyed your work with BEAR TOWN. Up until yesterday, I really didn't know what it was. I downloaded episode one and thought your puppets looked great, and the writing was really funny and clever. Can't wait to meet the Cockroaches.
    I encourage everyone to check out the BEAR TOWN episodes.
    Keep up the great work.. ...Pauly ;)
  17. Buck-Beaver

    Buck-Beaver Well-Known Member

    Thanks Pauly! Glad you liked what little is up so far.

    I really don't think antron changes the quality of the puppets, but it does help to hide the seams. For example, Hank in Bear Town (the dark brown bear) has a snout that was done a few years ago with Alpine fleece. The seams are very noticable (partially because of the way it was sewn). I actually have to recover it in antron so the seam isn't as noticable.

    Were the seams of the puppets visible in the video you did? If they aren't I'd be curious to know how they were concealed. The Preacher in the first episode of Bear Town was done with anti-pill fleece but patterned so that the seams are mostly concealed and I make up for the ones that are with careful lighting (I also am working with a screen size of 320 x 240 so it's much more forgiving than full-screen video).

    Something I haven't heard discussed much by puppet builders is the effect that the High Definition revolution is going to have on puppet building. More and more stations and facilities are switching to HD and the whole industry (hair, make-up, lighting, etc.)is having to adjust because HD shows everything. In time I think we'll find that a lot of puppets that looked OK on camera before look terrible in HD. So far Antron does seems to hold up - Kermit's Swamp Years was done in HD (I think) and looked pretty good - but I have a feeling we won't be able to get away with regular fleece anymore. Assuming I get to a season two of Bear Town I want to shoot in some kind of HD format so I plan to do some tests with the puppets I've got in the summer or the fall and it will be interesting to see how they turn out.
  18. PaulyPuppets

    PaulyPuppets New Member

    Seams in Vid

    BUCKY WRITES: Were the seams of the puppets visible in the video you did?

    No, for the most part they were completely invisible to the naked eye. However, there were some toy type story book characters in the vid as well, whose seam visibility was perfectly acceptable for the camera. I ALSO shot the entire thing against green screen. What a life saver green screen is.

    Keep up the great work, bud. .....Pauly :)

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