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Worst Muppet Movie?

Discussion in 'Classic Muppets' started by MuppetFan12, Oct 28, 2012.

  1. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    Link Hogthrob never got so much as a line in film. Sure, he was in the film audience at the end of The Muppet Movie, he banged a gong in MTI, and he was in line to use the bathroom next to Kermit in MFS. The Muppets? He was in the immediate background of almost every shot and was in a major musical number singing lines. Wayne and Wanda were onscreen quite a bit. They haven't been seen since The Muppet Show. Even some of the more obscure monsters were there. It's a shame that there was too much plot to fit into a 90 minute movie and more of the regular characters didn't get screen time as a result. But, other than the completely obscure making of Weezer video, this was the most we saw of Rowlf since, maybe MTM.

    As for the Kalidahs... here's why Statler and Waldorf work. They kinda have a point, and their heckling isn't meant to be soul crushing hateful. They're the ones that get the most laughs in a Fozzie Bear sketch. Fozzie's the only person that takes their heckling seriously because he lets it get to him on occasion. Their role in MWO was meant to be hurtful, discouraging, and it was accompanied by a depressing Leitmotif and a dark scene in a completely dismal movie to begin with. While it isn't too out of character, it's using the characters out of context.
    Duke Remington likes this.
  2. Princeton

    Princeton Well-Known Member

    Well, by the time that they actually get to the 'show' in TM, I was so bored and angry that I forgot about Link's star turn, so thanks for pointing that out. And you made a good point about the Kalidahs; I'm sure it was a good idea on paper but it turned out to be a poor attempt to try and shoehorn S&W into the movie (though you have to admit, it was a better attempt than MTI or MFS).

    You keep using the word 'dismal' to describe MWO. I'm curious to hear your opinion on VMX. I watch it every Christmas but my full heart isn't in it like with all the other Muppet Christmas specials (Christmas Toy is a rather dark special when you think about it, but I laugh and have fun when I watch it more than feel sad), but for a Christmas movie, VMX is so darn glum! The one thing that puts VMX above TM for me is that it gives a satisfying closure to an otherwise cruel and unpleasant film (and you don't have to stay after the credits to find out the whole ending). And Heralde brought up a great point earlier about earning the money not being the point. That's true, but if VMX can have a happy ending while still being an unenjoyable and depressing film, what does that say about TM?
    beatnikchick300 likes this.
  3. D'Snowth

    D'Snowth Well-Known Member

    If anything, I was being too generous to IAVMMCM.
  4. Muppet fan 123

    Muppet fan 123 Well-Known Member

    That too.
  5. CensoredAlso

    CensoredAlso Well-Known Member

    It's the difference between a well balanced script and one that's...yeah not so much, lol.

    VMX just managed to save itself with its slightly less dreary ending. Whereas with TM the message of what winning really means just flowed better.
  6. Vincent L

    Vincent L Well-Known Member

    In it's defense, it's the only movie where Robin actually got a major role.
  7. snichols1973

    snichols1973 Well-Known Member

    In MFS, Gonzo is the central character, and it seems to feature a number of Muppets from Muppets Tonight, such as Johnny Fiama, Sal Minella, Clifford, Dr. Phil van Neuter, Carter (Howard Tubman's elderly butler), Chip (Gorilla TV / JH Hour), while Pepe and Bobo starred in supporting roles.

    It seems like this film was in need of a musical number from the Electric Mayhem...

    Meanwhile, KSY is more of a prequel, featuring Kermit and his amphibian friends before he set out for Hollywood and became famous, as Kermit and company battled for survival outside of the swamp....
  8. muppetlover123

    muppetlover123 Well-Known Member

    Yeah i know thats the only good part and steve as kermit and the characters statler waldorf gonzo rizzo and piggy
  9. D'Snowth

    D'Snowth Well-Known Member

    The Gonzo aspect aside, that's pretty much how most of the more modern Muppet movies have been, though most except for Johnny and Sal have been kind of retired. Prior to that, background characters seen in MCC and MTI were recycled from FR and JHH, and likewise, background characters seen in IVAMMCM and MWoO were recycled from MCC and MTI.

    As for the Electric Mayhem, I think that was during the time that Dr. Teeth was still semi-retired due to Jim's death (even though I know he had one line in MFS).
  10. Tomservo95

    Tomservo95 Active Member

    I would have to say Oz and Swamp Years and Letters To Santa are pretty bad. If I had to pick one, it'd probably be the shoddily made, toilet joke ridden Swamp Years. Treasure Island has its hilarious moments but i never watch it all the way through. Muppets From Space is in my opinion, a fun movie. It's one I have cherished since childhood as it was my first muppet movie in theaters (I was 3). As I said earlier it is a genuinely sweet and funny movie that I will love for as long as I live. I never really did get all the hate for it. :smirk:
  11. MissMusical12

    MissMusical12 Well-Known Member

    Don't forget Janice because of Richard Hunt's death. She really had no line in the past few movies (MCC, MTI, MFS). Janice never really spoke again until IAVMMC. (When Brian Henson briefly took over).
  12. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    I put it here multiple times. VMX suffers being a parody film throughout (yet being better than actual parody movies), and the depressing portions are all based on the fact that the movie it was parodying the most was depressing itself. I find it fun, yet dated, but the refreshing part was seeing Kermit have actual emotions through the film. They didn't treat the character with kid gloves like in MTI or MFS (where he's just there) and he freaked out multiple times. Don't make me post the "Wonderful World of T-Shirts" again. We love our Kermit freak outs. He had moments like that on, of all things, Sesame Street when he actually appeared that period. So for that alone, I give VMX pretty good marks. If it wasn't for TM, that would be my favorite modern Muppet film.

    But with MWOz, there's no excuse. Oz can be a much darker universe than that 1930's movie (and by extension all media that's copying it... the Disney effect not occurring in a Disney movie) let it become. They even got rid of a depressing scene (the dark reprise of Over the Rainbow) because it was too depressing. The books are genuinely darker than anything in that film. But that doesn't mean I want to see the Muppets do that. Plus, Piggy is just... over the top evil in that one. It's interesting to see how her character could get an alternate dark interpretation. She works on that level, but listen to the lyrics to "The Witch is in the House" and tell me it isn't torture porn set to lyrics. And that was the GOOD song in the movie.

    LTS was a rush job. I think it was a very good project and a better direction for the Muppets than MOz, but it needed a better middle that didn't make it feel like your watching the beginning and end of a movie. There could have been great improvement with a stronger ending and at least some scene with the other Muppets feeling terrible for refusing to go to the North Pole.
    Duke Remington and Tomservo95 like this.
  13. Dizzyactress

    Dizzyactress Member

    Either Muppets Wizard of Oz or Muppets Take Manhattan, but they both are really great movies.
  14. StevieOpossum

    StevieOpossum Well-Known Member

    Muppets Wizard of Oz, hands down. It's nearly impossible to get through the movie without making a snarky comment or complaining. It's attempts to be "hip" makes the movie just plain outdated nowadays. Also, Pepe got way to much screen time.
    beatnikchick300 likes this.
  15. Dominicboo1

    Dominicboo1 Well-Known Member

    The Muppet's Wizard of Oz. Ashanti was not fit to play the likeable character that was Dorothy. I took Dorothy about ten minutes before realizing her place is at home, Dorothy in this version decideds "Hey I can become a singer! To heck with Aunt Em and Uncle Henry! Who cares that they think I'm dead?!" It's only in the last 20 minutes that she realizes her place in the family, and the pop culture references are pretty bad! However at the same time it has its redeeming moments. Fozzie ,Gonzo, and Piggy are all perfectly casted as the Lion, Tin THing, and the Wicked Witch of the West.
  16. jvcarroll

    jvcarroll Well-Known Member

    A clarification about Muppet Wizard of Oz:

    A business associate of mine hosted a panel featuring Kirk Thatcher at Comic-Con last week. Most of the questions were Star Trek/Star Wars related, but he did find something out for me. At no time was Muppets Wizard of Oz being considered for theatrical release in any phase of the production. The project sinks or swims in its own right as a made for TV special. Also, Kirk's first job was on Empire Strikes Back. What a fantastic first job! Few people can beat that!
  17. Dominicboo1

    Dominicboo1 Well-Known Member

    It's worse, because Dorothy and her friends could have fallen to their deaths, and seemed to relish in the thought they could fall especially Fozzie (er Lion)....
    It's pretty interesting that Empire Strikes Back was Kirk's first job. I don't hate the movie by any means it's just not nearly as good as the other moives.
  18. StevieOpossum

    StevieOpossum Well-Known Member

    The reason why pop-culture references are not good foundation for jokes is because they can become horribly outdated. (e.g. Miss Piggy's Napster line at the beginning of the movie) That's one of the things that made MWoZ near-unwatchable,
  19. Dominicboo1

    Dominicboo1 Well-Known Member

    Exactly! I was to be in a one act play in high school a year and a half ago playing the starring role, but my associates wrote their own play and I was cast as Harry Potter. Now I love Harry Potter, but the other characters are Bella from Twilight, the cast of the Jersey Shore, Justin Bieber, and Charlie Sheen. With the exceptions of Harry and Bella since the films and books are more likely to be remembered than the stars...the jokes themselves aren't going to be remembered. For example our Justin says after he tries to get away from Rebecca Black "I have to go talk to Selena about this baby thing." He was referring to the paternity suit, but of course this won't be remembered 10 years from now.
    StevieOpossum likes this.
  20. beatnikchick300

    beatnikchick300 Well-Known Member

    Of all the movies, I enjoyed The Muppets the least. And please spare me a repeat of the "Popular movies you hate" thread experience, because I think my criticisms of it are legitimate:
    • The songs were mostly forgettable;
    • The human actors ranged from so sugar-sweet-they-give-you-diabetes-cutesy to wooden and uninteresting;
    • It was EXTREMELY emotionally manipulative (look, to want people to enjoy the Muppet characters is fine [I'm all for that], but a lot of the scenes in the movie seemed like guilt trips for non-fans and fans who may have fallen out of the loop). It didn't have any subtly at all, something the films before and even after Jim's death at least had SOME semblance of;
    • It did seem like an ascended fan fiction. And don't get me wrong, that can work, but not with so many problems;
    • The ending resolution seemed like a cop-out. There, I said it.
    I didn't care for Letters to Santa either. Too many out of character moments (Gonzo being emo, for one, and since when would the gang turn their backs on each other when they need help? Whatever happened to them being "a family?") I'm surprised this special didn't annoy more people than it did me.

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