Sesame Workshop Trying To Have It Both Ways(Bert/Ernie issue)

[GonzoLeaper]

Yes, in Uganda, Senegal, Nigeria, Jamaica, Ghana and other black countries it's not only illegal to be gay(even non sexual) but it's often encouraged to hunt down and attack gay and lesbian people. In Jamaica, it's almost become part of pop culture as big time reggae singers and politicians on tv explicitly talk about how they believe gays are subhumans who should be hunted down. In Muslim countries like Iran, they just straight up hang gays and use Islamic law. In Egypt they raid gay meetups and throw people in jail for long periods of time. Saudi Arabia of course has some of the most oppressive anti gay laws in the Muslim world. Israel tho, is rather progressive in gay rights thankfully as well as woman rights. But pretty much, if you're a woman or gay it's not the best situation to be in some of these countries.

Thanks for answering my question. And I agree that calling anyone subhuman is awful and just as sinful.
By the way, I don't know if you still consider yourself a Jehovah's Witness or not, but I'm sorry if I said anything to offend you regarding the religion- but that is the viewpoint of most evangelical Christians.

Right...but I must ask, as I do of all Christians I converse with who believe homosexuality is a sin... is it the sexual aspect that gets the spotlight? There's a lot of things written as scripture both new and old testament I recall that noone in the modern world would even bother adhering too. See I get the sleeping around thing.
A lot of people have this idea that gay people are meeting up at parties and hooking up, and living a very hedonistic permiscuous lifestyle. That would bug me too, as it does when I hear about it in the straight world. I think many people would agree that a life style of sleeping around is bad regardless if one lives life according to scripture or not.

But I often think...would a loving God truly consider two longterm for life gay or lesbian people as sinners? There's so many mundane, boring, deeply faithful and good gay men and lesbian women who seem like they would be considered exemplary in a gameplan God would want. What sin are they committing, other than petty squabbles and the usual couply things? Meanwhile America's divorce rate is over 50% with straight couples.

Also what sort of sin are we talking here? I don't believe in sin, other than the bad karma people create by doing harm to others. But if one believes in sin, I wonder where this "homosexual lifestyle"(ie: faithful committed gay couple) is placed.

Leviticus also says owning slaves is ok, but certain meats are bad to eat. It also says
sexual relations with your wife around "that time" is punishable from being cut off from family. Also if I remember something about mixing seeds during a crop and mixing different fabrics together.

We've probably discussed this before, but I want to reiterate that there are some Levitical laws aimed squarely at the Israelites- most evangelical scholars refer to these as civil laws- which would include laws regarding mixing seeds during a crop and mixing different fabrics together. Slavery was allowed in that time but The Bible never says that God commanded Israel to have slaves or that it was a good thing. This is a different topic altogether, but the meaning of slavery in those days does differ a good bit from the idea we have of slavery during the colonial days- that would require some further research to go more into that, but suffice it to say that I certainly believe slavery is wrong. The dietary laws are there for health for the most part- even today some foods are sold in health stores that are based on Biblical recipes so to speak. (Ezekiel 4:9 cereals particularly comes to mind. For that matter, Muslims also have halal foods based on their dietary laws in the Koran. And of course, orthodox Jews strictly follow the dietary laws of the Old Testament as well.)
However, there are other laws that are referred to as moral laws by evangelical scholars and that is where laws regarding human relations, including sexual ones, would fall. There are still moral principles that can be derived from the civil laws as well and the New Testament has a couple of examples of doing this. One particular one is a modern day application of Leviticus 19:19 (which is a command against interbreeding)- in the New Testament we have the parallel of not being unequally yoked with unbelievers, whether in business partnerships or marriage, etc.
It is a rather confusing topic at times, but if you're interesting in reading more on this, allow me to direct you to a really good article on it.
It basically comes down to the fact that Christians are no longer the Old Covenant of the Law, which couldn't really save anyone anyway because no one can fully keep the Law, but are now instead under the New Covenant of grace established through Jesus' death and Resurrection. (Romans in particular explains this well.) And we obey Jesus not in an effort to "earn" salvation but in gratitude to Him for giving us salvation for free! Jesus said that if we love Him, we will obey Him. And as I've probably mentioned before, He upheld God's standard for marriage and human sexual relations in Matthew 19.
Of course, we also have other places in the New Testament that directly deal with homosexuality- in both the sexual acts as well as the sexual lust.
This is a core issue as well- (from a male perspective here) as much as the act of having sex with a woman you're not married to is a sin, so is lusting after her with your eyes. In Matthew 5:28, Jesus says that in doing this, we have already committed adultery with her in our hearts. Whether we actually have committed a physical act of sex outside of God's design (as stated in Genesis 2:24 - essentially one man and one woman for life united in marriage first and then they have sexual union) or lusted for something outside of God's design, we are still in sin.
The problem is that many don't take The Bible literally, perhaps because of perceived errors or contradictions or perhaps because of perceived injustices against certain groups of people because we don't understand how God thinks and works or perhaps because to do so would be to admit that we have done wrong and are doing wrong and we'd rather not listen to that- or whatever the reason- but that of course makes it hard to understand God's Law and follow God's Law.
Now if some have chosen to do that, I understand that some make that choice and that is up to them. I am simply pointing out that since I do believe The Bible literally unless it's specifically stated to be otherwise (i.e. a parable or allegory)- there will continue to be a division and difference in belief and thinking regarding God, The Bible and His commands with those who don't believe this way.
This doesn't mean we can't still listen to each other and learn from each other, but we certainly won't always agree on everything. It simply comes down to the fact that I trust in Christ and what He has set down in The Bible and what He has said regarding what's good and what's bad. For those who disagree with parts of The Bible and don't hold to all of it, then we will have to respectfully agree to disagree. The issue really should be more with every individual person and God. Will we accept what He says is right and wrong or not? Will we obey God or not?
That is an individual choice everyone must make and everyone will of course have differing views on this.
But let me state here that I am on no witchhunt after gay people or adulterers or any other group of "sinners" because I join in that category as the chief of sinners, as 1 Timothy 1:15 says. I acknowledge that I have done much wrong in the sight of God and I cling only to His grace shown through Jesus' death and Resurrection for salvation. I seek only to share His love with others as He commanded- and part of doing that is lovingly speaking the Truth. (which He also commanded.)
I abhor the actions of the Westboro group (I don't even like to call them a church because they certainly don't represent Christlike behavior) and I don't agree with and don't like everything that people like Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson have said in proclaiming God's judgment on gays via AIDS, etc.
But I do agree with God's stance on human sexual relations. I think Christians need to continue to reach out with Christ's love to the world and proclaim the Good News of John 3:17- that God did not send His Son to condemn the world but to save the world! However, the condemnation does remain if we choose to ignore so great a salvation. (As Jesus explains in the rest of John 3)
Aside from sexual relations, I know we would all have to admit to some wrongdoing that The Bible calls wrong and that most people still universally agree is wrong. I hope deceit and lying are both still pretty much universally considered wrong. I daresay every one of us has been guilty of this at some point. I know I have. The same goes for unrighteous anger. The same goes for lustful thoughts. The same goes for any other sin (as James 2:10 points out.) But praise God that all of them are forgiven and forgotten when we trust Jesus as Savior!
We can disagree on what is and what isn't sin, but I hope we can agree on peace, love and understanding. (What's so funny about it, anyway?) I hope everyone will see and come to believe that God gave us that through Jesus. That is the message and hope of Christmas and Easter- because they really are celebrating the same thing - Our God is with us. Jesus saves us from our sins. Praise God!
While I'm thinking on it, Merry Christmas to all! And God bless us, everyone!

 

[GonzoLeaper]

But again how does my being attracted to a man make me a good person?

It doesn't. It doesn't matter how much of The Law we follow- none of us follow it all. That's why we need Jesus- He is the Only Good and the Only One who has kept all of The Law.

And regarding judging, Jesus also said-

• John 7:24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.
  The distinction is that, yes- we do need to take the log out of our eye before trying to remove the speck from our brother's eye- and we need to make sure we are not acting self-righteous. But those verses do not mean that we cannot call sin a sin. I don't make any judgments regarding whether or not someone is saved- that is God's call alone. Only He can see the heart and mind and see people's true thoughts and intentions.
  So we don't judge people- but we do judge behavior. If we didn't do that as a society, we wouldn't have any rules. And I agree with what God says in that some things are wrong. My motive for pointing it out to someone where the situation arises is in the hopes of presenting not only my point of view but also the grace and love of God who forgives those sins and all others. (As Jesus demonstrates in John 8.) 1 Corinthians 6:2-3 also talks about Christians and making judgments.
  I'm only pointing out what God says regarding behavior, not what I say. In either case, it is still God who makes the judgments. As Jude 1:22-23 says, " Be merciful to those who doubt; save others by snatching them from the fire; to others show mercy, mixed with fear—hating even the clothing stained by corrupted flesh."

I try to follow those verses by proclaiming the Gospel as Jesus commanded. As the prophets so often prefaced their statements, "Thus saith The Lord"- not me.
It seems that if anything, I am merely reminding people of what God has said.

 

[CensoredAlso]

It doesn't. It doesn't matter how much of The Law we follow- none of us follow it all. That's why we need Jesus- He is the Only Good and the Only One who has kept all of The Law.

See that's where I feel like Jesus is being molded into the Greek gods image. Thinking that the important thing is to worship an all powerful GOD, rather than being compassionate to others. Jesus does not have that kind of ego.

But those verses do not mean that we cannot call sin a sin.

But it DOES mean that God is not impressed with your efforts to call out others while you're clearly just as sinful as they are. That's why he refers to it as hypocrisy. (Not you personally, just in general)

I am merely reminding people of what God has said.

Worry about reminding yourself.

 

[GonzoLeaper]

Worry about reminding yourself.

I do- that's one reason I try to make sure to read The Bible each day.
And in reading Matthew 28:18-20, Jesus commands me to go into all the world and preach the Gospel- thus, in obeying His command, I try to share His Word wherever I can. (Though I do want to make sure it's not in a judgmental or obnoxious way.)

See that's where I feel like Jesus is being molded into the Greek gods image. Thinking that the important thing is to worship an all powerful GOD, rather than being compassionate to others. Jesus does not have that kind of ego.

It's not a matter of ego when you rightfully have that position. And Jesus alone does.
It's important to both worship the all powerful God and be compassionate to others. In fact, being compassionate to others is a great way itself to worship the all powerful God because it's obeying His commands. And Jesus said that we are to love the Lord our God with all our heart, soul, mind and strength and to love our neighbor as ourselves. He also said that if we love Him, we will obey Him. And He is God (as He said in John 14:9) and is worthy of all worship and praise. As Philippians 2:5-11 says, though Jesus was in very nature God, He made Himself nothing and took the form of a servant and humbled Himself to the point of death- even death on a cross. For this reason, God raised Him to the highest place and gave Him the Name that is above all names- that at the Name of Jesus every knee should bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father.

 

[CensoredAlso]

It's not a matter of ego when you rightfully have that position. And Jesus alone does.

The man I read about in the Bible has no ego to speak of and cares more about how we treat others than how we treat him. That is why he is worthy. : )

In fact, being compassionate to others is a great way itself to worship the all powerful God because it's obeying His commands.

Is that why we're compassionate? To earn brownie points?