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FAQ Additions: Muppet Family Christmas and Emmet Otter Edits

Discussion in 'Feedback' started by Phillip, Nov 7, 2002.

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  1. Phillip

    Phillip Administrator Staff Member

    A couple questions were added to our FAQ today. These are questions that we get very frequently this time of year so we wanted to provide a good summary of the various Muppet Family Christmas and Emmet Otter edits.

    Let us know what you think about the answers. If you have any other comments or suggestions of ways to make these questions better, please let us know. As others post and have questions about the edited videos, please direct them towards these responses as a reference.

    What scenes are missing from the Muppet Family Christmas video?

    http://www.muppetcentral.com/help/faq/collectibles.shtml#9

    What scenes are missing from the Emmet Otter's Jug-Band Christmas video?

    http://www.muppetcentral.com/help/faq/collectibles.shtml#10
  2. anathema

    anathema Active Member

    MFC:

    I can confirm that all the UK releases I know of (Palace, Buena Vista and two Columbia Tristars) are uncut aside from the Fozzie/Ma Bear scene (does anyone know why this was cut?); also the German-language Columbia Tristar release from a couple of years ago (although the packaging states a running time of 42 mins, the programme runs to the expected 47).

    Emmet Otter:

    I have a CED copy of this with a run time of 51 mins, so it seems likely that this is uncut (the more recent VHS only runs to 48). Unfortunately I can't play the disc to confirm this :-( If memory serves, there was a laserdisc release done at around the same time, so it's quite possible that this is uncut, too.
  3. Phillip

    Phillip Administrator Staff Member

    Alex,

    Thanks for confirming your findings. It helps greatly. We're trying to ensure that the above questions are complete and as accurate as possible.
  4. BlueFrackle

    BlueFrackle Active Member

    Alex,

    Emmet Otters Jugband Christmas has only been released once in England.
    It was by Columbia/RCA, And had no edits.

    A Muppet Family christmas was released by Palace and then Columbia and they both only have one edit.
    The Fozzie and Ma Bear scene.

    See ya
  5. anathema

    anathema Active Member

    Yup :) My CED and VHS copies are NTSC. I'm not a great fan of standards conversions...
  6. Chilly Down

    Chilly Down Member

    If the only reason for the cuts are due to copyright issues with the songs, then why is the scene with Fozzie and Ma Bear *talking* cut from every video version?
  7. Zack the Dog

    Zack the Dog Active Member

    here are a few more questions

    and if Henson didn't have the right's to produce the certian songs on video how come they were released onces in the UK on video and not now?

    Can henson buy the right's to the songs still? I mean i fully still don't understand the whole thing, they have the right's to use the song on TV but it's part of the specail why can't they just put it on the video?

    what's the reason for the right's not to be on video? Because Henson would be making money off songs they did not own? That's the only reason i can think of.

    i wonder, if sabin bought the muppets, if that's still an option, if he could buy the rights or if he had the rights to the songs already, but the same goes for Disney, i wonder if they already have the rights.

    Zack
  8. anathema

    anathema Active Member

    Rights vary from territory to territory. Just because a piece of music can be cleared for home video use in one country doesn't automatically mean it's cleared for anywhere else. In this case, the music is clearable for the UK but not the US.

    TV rights are different to home video rights, too. I don't know what the deal is in the US, but in the UK the broadcasters have a blanket agreement with the music industry that allows them to use anything they like for broadcast, but requires negotiation for commercial exploitation. For example, there's a recent 'Doctor Who' DVD release which had to have a Beatles song replaced because it simply wasn't possible to clear it for home video use - the copyright holder said no. A repeat of the story wouldn't have this problem. The same release features another piece of music which was clearable for the UK DVD, but not for the US and Australian releases, so it had to be removed from them.

    The reason the US release had to be cut is nothing to do with Henson profiteering - if the songs had been clearable, the copyright holders would have received their royalties. I don't know the reason why the rights were withheld, but it will come down to one of two things: either the copyright holder said no, or else they asked for too much money.
  9. Zack the Dog

    Zack the Dog Active Member

    Thanks for all that info, it clears it up a bit, but how come it was released in the uk in full( besides for the fozzie and ma stocking part) then and can not be released now in full in the uk? Did they have the rights then in the uk or did they expire?


    i wonder if disney has the rights to those songs, they own everything else;-)

    Zack)Rowlf the,Dog.
  10. anathema

    anathema Active Member

    The last UK VHS release I am aware of was about 12 months ago, and apart from the Fozzie/Ma Bear part, it's uncut. Unless something has changed radically since then, the UK rights are still cleared.

    Alex
  11. Zack the Dog

    Zack the Dog Active Member

    oh yeah?i did not know that, i thought it was when it first came out years ago, but the DVD is cut right? i wonder whats up with that Fozzie and Ma part?
  12. anathema

    anathema Active Member

    The US DVD is cut, it's the same as the US VHS release. There isn't a UK DVD release as yet.
  13. Zack the Dog

    Zack the Dog Active Member

    oh then it proably wouldn't be cut then if nothing has changed when a DVD comes to the UK.

    thanks for all the info i see the light now, now if only i could get the light in in full version on DVD, oh well 80's Mc D's ads are fun anyways.
  14. anathema

    anathema Active Member

    Hopefully when (if?) there is a UK DVD, it will at least be the same edit as the VHS, but there's no guarantee - rights for DVD use are frequently different to those for VHS. I've got programmes on VHS which had to be altered slightly for their DVD release a few years later because the copyright holder had changed their terms.
  15. Phillip

    Phillip Administrator Staff Member

    Concerning the Fozzie and Ma scene...

    My guess is that a new digital TV master was made by Henson in the early nineties when Nick began airing the show. The new TV logo was added at the beginning and that one scene with Fozzie and Ma was cut making it immediately dissolve from the end of the Carol Sing to Kermit and Piggy talking. Time might have been a factor here as well for Nick and this was an easy place to make a slight edit.

    Because the new master was of higher quality and had the new logo placed at the beginning it's been used for subsequent TV and video airings during the past ten years. The other edits have come from this same higher quality digital master. I've talked to people that work with Columbia, and most don't even know the shows are edited! In the case of Emmet Otter and MFC they have used the masters that Henson gave them.

    That's my hunch as to why the Fozzie and Ma scene hasn't been seen much since the original network TV airings in 1987 and 1988.
  16. anathema

    anathema Active Member

    The master must be a little older than that - the original UK release was done in the late 80s and has those changes.

    Now, if anyone can supply me with a decent copy of the cut scene, I can edit it back in... :D
  17. BlueFrackle

    BlueFrackle Active Member

    Alex,

    I have the whole thing uncut !


    :D
  18. Chilly Down

    Chilly Down Member

    Thanks for clearing up the Ma Bear scene thing, Phil. Still disappointing, but a little less maddening when one knows the reasons for it.


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