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Frank Oz worked on a new Muppet movie script

Discussion in 'Classic Muppets' started by cahuenga, Nov 21, 2011.

  1. Sgt Floyd

    Sgt Floyd Well-Known Member

    So by that logic something can't be so bad that it actually is funny?
  2. Epictetus

    Epictetus Member

    Nope, it just means that if something's so bad it's funny, the joke is ON the creator, not by them! :p
  3. Beauregard

    Beauregard Well-Known Member

    Epictetus. I love you.
  4. Epictetus

    Epictetus Member

    *crazy Kermit celebration arms!*
  5. Puckrox

    Puckrox Well-Known Member

    Um... I like to think that I have a pretty great sense of humor (I certainly don't laugh at (stupid) things like Two and a Half Men), and you're making it sound like the fact I laughed during The Muppets and found their jokes funny means I like low brow comedy... which is utterly false.

    I'll admit that the Muppets do play to low brow comedy at times (ie. fart shoes), but they totally know that they do it on purpose when they do. I feel like the Muppets are a brand of comedy that can come off as low brow, but simultaneously it's so much better than low brow comedy. Honestly, the only movie of the Muppet's that made me scrunch up my face and go "...this isn't funny..." is Muppets Wizard of Oz. But this movie had some truly great moments. 'Man or Muppet' was a hilarious scene, as were parts such as: Rowlf's "montage moment", Gonzo's gag, Hobo Joe (that man needs to be my best friend), Bobo's one liners, Walter's screaming on the bus, Muppet Man, and so on. I'm sorry if those don't live up to your standards of comedy, but I see them as jokes that totally stand on their own.
    Scooterfan5 likes this.
  6. CensoredAlso

    CensoredAlso Well-Known Member

    I totally agree. I just don't think the "fart shoes" thing was an example of that, hehe. ;)
  7. Epictetus

    Epictetus Member

    Nope: my point is that the mere fact that you laughed at the jokes does not prove that they're good ones.

    You need better arguments for that. Happily, in your next paragraph, you supply some better arguments.

    I make no assumptions about your sense of humor. Since you're a Muppet fan in general, I'd be willing to assume that your sense of humor is pretty great, overall.

    The fart shoes are, of course, a frequently cited example of the kind of humor that Oz and other apparently anonymous Muppeteers felt was uncharacteristic and cheap. It doesn't really make sense for Fozzie, who's supposed to be a poor comedian because he doesn't really get how to do jokes right.

    I've never see Muppets Wizard of Oz, but, sadly, it sounds like I should probably steer as wide a path as possible.

    The Man or Muppet song was... well, it had some good internal jokes once it got going, and the idea of the actor who plays Sheldon being the human version of Walter was quite funny, but the song didn't make much sense. I mean, why is Gary conflicted? He's not a Muppet. He just cares about Walter, and the only conflict there is the one scene where the movie trots out the incredibly tired cliché of him being jealous of Walter's new friends. Why is Walter conflicted? 'Cause he hasn't... uh... found his talent? Half-baked is the kindest way you could describe these themes. If I saw these ideas on the drawing board, I'd say, "Good job, guys! This looks like an interesting start. Work hard, keep at it, and maybe by this time tomorrow you'll have enough to start on a rough draft."

    Rowlf's montage moment: geez, must The Muppets be the one millionth thing to make self-conscious references to montages? South Park did a whole song about how montages make time go by quickly almost ten years ago. Rowlf's joke in particular - that he didn't know why his utterly undramatic agreement wasn't shown - is a decent minor laugh, but it's, again, a pretty worn-out joke. A perfectly legitimate part of a funnier movie, but an embarrassing joke to be given as an example of the film's best jokes.

    Thank you, that really means a lot to me. Somebody **** well owed me an apology. :attitude:
  8. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    And thus, the end all be all opinion, one guy didn't like it. So I guess that makes it a horrible movie, especially ignoring the entire rest of the fanbase that likes it.
    theprawncracker, TSSD and Puckrox like this.
  9. Puckrox

    Puckrox Well-Known Member

    Indeed. I'm done with this conversation. It's frustrating me way too much.

    Epictetus, you've got your opinion and I've got mine, and it seems pretty clear that nothing I say is going to persuade you to see things my way. So let's just agree to disagree.
    CensoredAlso likes this.
  10. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    Yeah... I'm done trying to have a discussion with someone who apparently watched just enough of South Park to see someone tell a joke that should never be told again, yet clearly didn't see the episode "Simpsons Did It," where that complaint was met with a resounding "WHO CARES?!"

    I'd say 90% of Muppedom has found this a heartfelt tribute... a couple guys don't like it. That's the way it usually goes. Better to have that than everyone unanimously hating it.
    Puckrox likes this.
  11. CensoredAlso

    CensoredAlso Well-Known Member

    Well look I may end up liking the movie. But saying the majority likes it isn't always the best argument. A great many people like Twilight too. ;)
  12. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    Oh, come on... we're not as easy to please as the Twilight fans... and confidentially, they actually kinda hate the movies, but go and see them anyway for some reason.

    That 90% includes some VERY hard to please people. Frogester hates virtually everything that came out of the post-Henson era... he liked the comics and the web videos (or certain ones) sure... but he said something that I think holds his higesht regard... "Jason Segal is to the Muppets what Christopher Nolan is to Batman." Getting a good review from that guy means something.
  13. CensoredAlso

    CensoredAlso Well-Known Member

    Lol. I can see the E! True Hollywood Story headline now: The Bizarre Curse of the Twilight Movies, lol.

    This is true, lol. Will it mean anything if I like it? ;)
  14. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    It's like a small fraction of people actually like those films, everyone else just gets dragged to see them. And I'm sure most of them are even there ironically.

    Plus, going by Rotten Tomatoes, Twilight has a 27% positive rating... Muppets has over 90%... you do the math. I'm sure the other kiddy movies got bad grades too. 'cept Hugo's got some good reviews. If I weren't dying to see the movie one more time, Tin Tin AND Sherlock Holmes, I'd give it a go.

    Considering that this guy's the most negative review and he's in the extreme minority... yeah. Even those who didn't love the movie found something to like.
  15. CensoredAlso

    CensoredAlso Well-Known Member

    You have no idea what kind of pressure I'm under, lol. I want to like it, but I also want to be honest.
  16. Epictetus

    Epictetus Member

    I don't agree to that!

    (Speaking of old jokes.)

    Seriously, though. If you're frustrated, you have only yourself to blame. You're mad because I wasn't promptly persuaded by you? Buck up, my friend: you will have many discussions in life where you fail to persuade the other person. And it's not just 'cause that person's a jerk. That's life.
    CensoredAlso likes this.
  17. Epictetus

    Epictetus Member

    Drtooth, I applaud your South Park knowledge! Yeah, the Simpsons Did It joke is interesting, and relevant to the question of old jokes. I disagree with your interpretation of the episode, though: I think Parker and Stone are dealing with their frustration at how difficult it can be to come up with new things. Their resolution is not to throw up their hands and say, oh, hey, originality doesn't matter! It's to acknowledge how awesome the Simpsons was, not sweat being the first to an idea too much, and keep trying to be as fresh and funny as possible. But I'll happily acknowledge that this isn't the only possible interpretation.

    It is, however, rather silly to declare that there's no such thing as relative freshness or tiredness with jokes. I hope you're not really trying to commit such silliness here, in such fine company.

    Why are you so threatened by a different take on the film? I disagree with you (and Puckrox) and have offered up arguments and explanations for my opinions. It's as if you think the forum somehow has to come to a consensus on whether this was good or not. Silly, silly, silly.
  18. Sgt Floyd

    Sgt Floyd Well-Known Member

    We have had issues with trolls bashing the muppets for no real reason, so any time anyone has negative comments about new productions (be it something unreleased, or new that as a whole everyone loves), things get a bit...I dont know the word I'm I'm looking for. Personally, I dont particularly see anything you said about the movie wrong. It is your opinion and backed it up. Of course, I have yet to actually see the movie myself. The only thing I can see wrong here is the whole philosophy of a joke was starting to go a bit far on all ends.
  19. Epictetus

    Epictetus Member

    Ah, fair enough. I certainly don't have any of that context.

    Well, my hope for you is that you're able to enjoy it somewhat, but that you see where I'm coming from with my comments. Then I'd get some gratifying validation, but you'd still have a good time with the Muppets at the movies. Let us know what you think whenever you see it!
  20. JJandJanice

    JJandJanice Well-Known Member

    Well, like I said at the end of the day, I really enjoyed the movie and it's got a 98% approval rating on Rotten Tomatoes (last time I looked anyway), so the movie is doing something right regardless if one guy likes it or not. But again, that's his opinion, though I do whole heartly disagree with it.

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