Is there Muppet continuity/canon?

[beaker]

But if we factor in the various promotional interviews the Muppets have given for the movies, then from that perspective we can look at all of them as just movies that they've acted in and none of them are necessarily representative of events in their lives.

Yep! That's the way I see it. Ultimately the Muppets are all actors, but that we see common themes and narratives true to theirselves or origins interspersed through their wide body of work.

Just wondering, but what is Gonzo if not an alien? Kermit and his "voice" muse that he's a little like a turkey in "The Muppet Movie", but not much. (Though I do kind of agree with the turkey idea in that he kind of reminds me of one to some degree.)
And Chewbacca does mention being held captive by weird turkeys in the Star Wars episode of The Muppet Show and Gonzo was portraying the villian, Dearth Nadir.
Yes, I know that's really stretching it and in the end, it doesn't matter because Gonzo's perfectly happy with being a whatever or a weirdo. I love Gonzo! (hence my username- lol)
But it is fun to ponder.

I have always thought Gonzo was a bird. There are so many bird species on the planet, I mean just google the "Cassowary" birds.
This makes sense, as look at his insane attraction toward chickens. While cross species is not unusual(ie: Kermit and Piggy), it's another piece of the puzzle. Look at Gonzo and the "Thanksgiving Turkey" fighting over Camilla in MFC....like two male birds pining for the mating ritual of a female bird in heat in the animal kingdom.

Perhaps Gonzo does not know what kind of bird he is, and was orphaned at a very young age...so he really doesn't know. The "What is Gonzo" was a huge theme of MB, but I too have seen things that point me to think he is some sort of bird.

 

[Slackbot]

I have my own notions on Gonzo's origin, but that's for fanfic and not canon-related discussion. I'll just say that, to me, he's a Whatever. He just happens to be an alien whatever.

However, if he has to be a bird, I'd nominate the dodo. Seriously, look at one of those critters, then look at Gonzo. (It's not a perfect match, but how many pigs really look like Miss Piggy?) He might not have gotten the memo that he's supposed to be extinct, and be wandering around wondering where everybody else is. And it would be possible for his mother to have died before his birth, although maybe not by two years.

 

[Drtooth]

This should of course not be confused with "Muppet High", the proposed animated Muppet show set in a 50's high school(I still have some of the figurines from that)

Didn't work for Q*bert.

Anyway, about Muppet Babies... I like the show, but there is one thing that started bothering me lately. So, like... did they live there? They never mentioned their parents. I get the feeling they were abandoned... and somehow that doesn't sit all that well with me. I don't like the idea of them being orphans. Gonzo, maybe... Animal, maybe (Case of the Missing Mother) but it just seems like they should have hinted that they go home once in a while. They aren't babies, not newborns... they're toddlers if anything. I don't know why I gravitated to something dark and unintended... but it really makes me think. I'm sure they just somehow sleep over and spend the entire day every so often, though... I mean, Bunsen and Beaker didn't live there, and only visited.

As far as Muppet parents go, Sesame Street wasn't all that consistent until just recently. Seems that any book randomly added in parents inconsistent with the ones on the show. It's almost as if they finally said "That's it!" and created uniform official designs for their parents. Take Elmo's, for instance. And didn't they change their names to Louie and Mae when they said they were like George and Gladys in an Elmo's World bit? As far as Muppet show character parents go, I think any Muppet Kids book that references Gonzo with Parents is RIGHT OUT (and really, Scooter can't read? Bull!) but I want to include Laverne. Especially since he called her (well... his mother is nameless, so I'm going with the book name) after winning that Webby award.

 

[beaker]

However, if he has to be a bird, I'd nominate the dodo. Seriously, look at one of those critters, then look at Gonzo. (It's not a perfect match, but how many pigs really look like Miss Piggy?) He might not have gotten the memo that he's supposed to be extinct, and be wandering around wondering where everybody else is. And it would be possible for his mother to have died before his birth, although maybe not by two years.

Wow, I had forgotten what a Dodo was suppose to look like. To me the "alien" angle seemed highly contrived and forced, and hasn't been mentioned by Gonzo himself since then so to me its as canon as Kermit being Smolet.

Aw, but a long extinct bird that somehow had a few survivors...I could guy that. Even in MB I heard references to him being a bird or bird like. If we look at all of the alien species in the Muppet/Sesame world, and even factor in Star Wars, Star Trek, BSG, B5, Farscape, etc there's no aliens that come close to looking bird like or like Gonzo. If we are to go by the idea that they are all actors, than Gonzo's "alien" brothers from MFS are some of the few relatives or species as Gonzo is.

There's a generic "monster" heritage for Muppets and Sesame Street. To me Droop and Nigel the Director, as well as Behemoth and Big Mean Carl(even tho its never said) would be from this heritage.

 

[beaker]

Didn't work for Q*bert.

Anyway, about Muppet Babies... I like the show, but there is one thing that started bothering me lately. So, like... did they live there? They never mentioned their parents. I get the feeling they were abandoned... and somehow that doesn't sit all that well with me. I don't like the idea of them being orphans. Gonzo, maybe... Animal, maybe (Case of the Missing Mother) but it just seems like they should have hinted that they go home once in a while. They aren't babies, not newborns... they're toddlers if anything. I don't know why I gravitated to something dark and unintended... but it really makes me think. I'm sure they just somehow sleep over and spend the entire day every so often, though... I mean, Bunsen and Beaker didn't live there, and only visited.

As far as Muppet parents go, Sesame Street wasn't all that consistent until just recently. Seems that any book randomly added in parents inconsistent with the ones on the show. It's almost as if they finally said "That's it!" and created uniform official designs for their parents. Take Elmo's, for instance. And didn't they change their names to Louie and Mae when they said they were like George and Gladys in an Elmo's World bit? As far as Muppet show character parents go, I think any Muppet Kids book that references Gonzo with Parents is RIGHT OUT (and really, Scooter can't read? Bull!) but I want to include Laverne. Especially since he called her (well... his mother is nameless, so I'm going with the book name) after winning that Webby award.

If youre talking specifically about the canon within MB, it does seem odd that they are all 24 hours in the nursery...so yes, we are suppose to believe they are either orphaned/adopted/abandoned. There is no other explanation, unless they are just there for weekends...which is highly unlikely, given other character toddlers just visit.

Btw, Gonzo referenced his mom on a youtube video? Kermit is one of the only characters we see or hear about extended family(tho we knoiw Scooter has an uncle and sister)
though following the way frogs are born and raised in a real swamp, we naturally don't hear about parents. We know Fozzie and Animal are close with their moms.
Wait, is Fozzie's mom the only Muppet who's parent we've seen?

 

[Drtooth]

Btw, Gonzo referenced his mom on a youtube video? Kermit is one of the only characters we see or hear about extended family(tho we knoiw Scooter has an uncle and sister)
though following the way frogs are born and raised in a real swamp, we naturally don't hear about parents. We know Fozzie and Animal are close with their moms.
Wait, is Fozzie's mom the only Muppet who's parent we've seen?

Animal did. I wonder if there was a typo in my post or something... but you know... the whole "MAMA! MAMA!" thing coming from Animal. Plus, I always loved that book, so I'd love to see Laverne retconned into the Muppets. I always liked her design... She'd look WONDERFUL as an actual Muppet.

That said, Oscar's getting a mother... AND a sister

But when it comes to Gonzo (as somehow I think you got confused with my post) anything that happens in Muppet Kids is BULL. He is seen living with his Grandmother.... I take it back, since he doesn't seem to have parents in the book series. But having actual relatives is just as bad. Even with Muppet Babies they referenced the fact he didn't know where he came from. But then again, Scooter not being able to read ticks me off so SO much. So Muppet Kids= NOT CANON! Heck, Muppet Kids= Completely forget about it.

 

[beaker]

Animal did. I wonder if there was a typo in my post or something... but you know... the whole "MAMA! MAMA!" thing coming from Animal. Plus, I always loved that book, so I'd love to see Laverne retconned into the Muppets. I always liked her design... She'd look WONDERFUL as an actual Muppet.

That said, Oscar's getting a mother... AND a sister

But when it comes to Gonzo (as somehow I think you got confused with my post) anything that happens in Muppet Kids is BULL. He is seen living with his Grandmother.... I take it back, since he doesn't seem to have parents in the book series. But having actual relatives is just as bad. Even with Muppet Babies they referenced the fact he didn't know where he came from. But then again, Scooter not being able to read ticks me off so SO much. So Muppet Kids= NOT CANON! Heck, Muppet Kids= Completely forget about it.

Ooh I love that clip! It makes sense they'd show Oscar's family, since we've seen plenty of other types of grouches.

Are kid's book considered canon like the Star Wars books are?
As according to that muppet wiki, Gonzo's relatives only appear in the Muppet kids book line. I figure MB and Muppet Kids are their own separate canon.

What does seem canon from children's books are some of the Sesame books...particularly the ones that illustrate how Oscar's garbage can connects to a subterrenean little apartment. Its never explain or showed in Sesame Street, but has been illustrated in various kids books.

By the way, am I remembering it wrong, or has Gonzo in various interviews, Q and A appearances with Goelz or talk shows(and or other Muppets) pretty much backpaddled on the "Gonzo is an alien" thing? I seem to remember reference to that simply being for the movie MFS, and we "still dont know what he is"

 

[GonzoLeaper]

I like the dodo theory- that fits well. It's also pretty fitting with the Noah's Ark scene in "Muppets From Space" (though Noah actually would have had both a male and female dodo available at that time- according to Wikipedia, they went extinct sometime around the 1500s or so, due to being overhunted.)
I have another theory about "The Muppets Take Manhattan" and "Muppet Babies" now. What if "The Muppets Take Manhattan" was considered another movie that The Muppets had starred in? If we're thinking along those lines, then Miss Piggy's dream of the Muppets knowing each other as kids could have been seen as a reference and nod to "Muppet Babies" - like it was something scripted into their "movie". (i.e. "Muppet Babies" could've fit into the continuity if that was their actual origin. "The Muppet Movie" was "sort of approximately" how it happened, as Kermit said. And then the home movie from "A Muppet Family Christmas" could be the actual "very first Christmas the Muppets ever spent together".) Of course, essentially this would make the events as to how they met up of "The Muppet Movie" as taking place for "the movie" and the Muppet Babies canon being the actual origin.
But it could still fit in some way if the Muppet Babies were at an age where they honestly were too young to really recall much if anything from those years when they were older. So "The Muppet Movie" meetups would've been more of reunions than first meetings- the Muppets just didn't realize it at first.
Okay, so that's a really huge stretch, but I'm just saying you could try to make it work if you really wanted to retcon it both ways.

 

[beaker]

I like the dodo theory- that fits well. It's also pretty fitting with the Noah's Ark scene in "Muppets From Space" (though Noah actually would have had both a male and female dodo available at that time- according to Wikipedia, they went extinct sometime around the 1500s or so, due to being overhunted.)
I have another theory about "The Muppets Take Manhattan" and "Muppet Babies" now. What if "The Muppets Take Manhattan" was considered another movie that The Muppets had starred in? If we're thinking along those lines, then Miss Piggy's dream of the Muppets knowing each other as kids could have been seen as a reference and nod to "Muppet Babies" - like it was something scripted into their "movie". (i.e. "Muppet Babies" could've fit into the continuity if that was their actual origin. "The Muppet Movie" was "sort of approximately" how it happened, as Kermit said. And then the home movie from "A Muppet Family Christmas" could be the actual "very first Christmas the Muppets ever spent together".) Of course, essentially this would make the events as to how they met up of "The Muppet Movie" as taking place for "the movie" and the Muppet Babies canon being the actual origin.
But it could still fit in some way if the Muppet Babies were at an age where they honestly were too young to really recall much if anything from those years when they were older. So "The Muppet Movie" meetups would've been more of reunions than first meetings- the Muppets just didn't realize it at first.
Okay, so that's a really huge stretch, but I'm just saying you could try to make it work if you really wanted to retcon it both ways.

Ha, I totally get you...but I had forgotten just how much the Muppets break the fourth wall in so many of their productions.
It almost seems like a biproduct of the 80's for Henson Studios to have shoehorned the Muppet Babies into any of the proper Muppet productions like TMTM or MFC...almost like it was done more out of cross marketing tie-ins than following any sort of canon.

If the Muppets have two canons: the "real life" Muppets(as seen in interviews on talk shows who are simply actors) and then
the established rough canon gleaned from the movies/behind the scenes parts of TMS/specials...then I still am not sure how the Muppet Babies setup works. Because in all canon Kermit came from the swamp to follow his dreams, same goes for a lot of the characters who came to New York or California to pursue acting(or ended up acting by accident)

Of course, we now have a THIRD canon in this weird meta-verse
which we will see in the upcoming movie...in where the Muppets are playing themselves as actors, but are still within a scripted movie that has its own canon *whew*

Pretty much, this is my verbose way of saying maybe it's all meant to be left to our fan-fic imaginations?

 

[GonzoLeaper]

Pretty much, this is my verbose way of saying maybe it's all meant to be left to our fan-fic imaginations?

haha- pretty much yes- but of course, the dedicated fans like to speculate on these things for fun anyway.