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Steve Whitmire has left the Muppets, Matt Vogel to continue as Kermit

Discussion in 'Muppet Headlines' started by GonzoMan, Jul 10, 2017.

  1. MWoO

    MWoO Well-Known Member

    I mean.... if you all really want the thread to go away you could just stop posting in it... one person posted something a few days ago and then everyone started posting about how bad it was for someone to post in it.
  2. BlakeConor14

    BlakeConor14 Well-Known Member



  3. DarthGonzo

    DarthGonzo Well-Known Member

    Gonna say it again...I feel like people don’t want to keep seeing this thread because the situation with Steve really sucks, and people just don’t want to be reminded of it.

    But here’s the thing...if people want to discuss it, they should be allowed to discuss it. This thread shouldn’t be closed just because YOU don’t want to see it. It’s not just about the firing anymore. It’s the results from the firing that are still being felt.

    I personally feel like Kermit lost a lot of his soul with Steve gone. I just can’t get used to Vogel’s Kermit. It sounds like a bad impression to me, and all Disney being able to do with the character is make him sing Rainbow Connection doesn’t help at all. it’s a wound that’s not going to heal just because people would rather ignore it and demand this thread be closed. This is a situation that we’re going to feel for a long time as Steve’s characters still need to be replaced (who is doing Beaker and Statler now? What about Rizzo?).
    FletchySRF3088 likes this.
  4. BlakeConor14

    BlakeConor14 Well-Known Member

    Peter Linz is now Statler,Link and Lips.
    David Rudman is beaker
    Rizzo is yet to be recast

    All the puppeteers are doing fantastically well with their new characters including matt vogel

    I saw them live at the O2 all of them were amazing

    The fact that people are still whining about it two years on is pathetic tbh. Please get a grip

    People get fired. That's life

    Move on
    Froggy Fool likes this.
  5. dwayne1115

    dwayne1115 Well-Known Member

    Im glad you and a lot of others were able to get over this whole situation so easily, but the truth of the matter is some have not, and it will take them a lot longer to get over the whole thing.
    I think the people who were lucky enough to see the concerts and see the recasting of Steve's characters are able to accept this a little easier, but for those of us who haven't had that exposure to the characters its just going to take time.
  6. BlakeConor14

    BlakeConor14 Well-Known Member

    A man was released from his position

    He didn't die.

    A grieving process of two years isn't needed.
  7. LittleJerry92

    LittleJerry92 Well-Known Member

    You know what’s scary?

    I can already sense a future argument coming on this thread and then it ends up with this thread being permanently deleted. So then basically it’s like we had no history of even talking about Steve’s firing.
  8. DarthGonzo

    DarthGonzo Well-Known Member

    This isn’t grieving. But it’s still amazing how members like yourself are trivializing how others feel about this. It’s actualy kind of disturbing.

    It’s indicative of a greater problem with the Muppets being owned by Disney. That a character as iconic as Kermit can be ripped from the performer who gave him life for 26 years and just passed to someone else like it isn’t a big deal. Stuff like this is what destroys the soul of the Muppets.

    And if people want to discuss it, they should be allowed to do so without members who can’t deal screaming how they’re tired of the topic and that this thread should be locked.

    Don’t like it? Stop reading the thread. It’s not rocket science.
    FletchySRF3088 likes this.
  9. LittleJerry92

    LittleJerry92 Well-Known Member

    @DarthGonzo while I do understand the points you mentioned of people unhappy remembering that Steve was fired, I think another reason people have been trying to avoid this thread is because of its past history.

    Let’s not forget - this thread literally caused huge wars and actually showed some true colors of some members over who was the better puppeteer. Given that some got chewed out just for saying they were unhappy that Steve was fired and that they were “wrong” about it, they probably just don’t want to re-live those memories.
  10. DarthGonzo

    DarthGonzo Well-Known Member

    ...then those people don’t HAVE to read this thread.
  11. DarthGonzo

    DarthGonzo Well-Known Member

    ...then those people don’t HAVE to read this thread.
  12. LittleJerry92

    LittleJerry92 Well-Known Member

    No, I totally get that too. I think why they also feel that way is because they also don’t want to see the risk of this thread being deleted, and erasing any evidence that we ever talked about Steve’s firing in the first place.
    Froggy Fool and Pig's Laundry like this.
  13. Any Del

    Any Del Well-Known Member

    I remember those wars... I almost died of laughter.
  14. Prof Bunsen

    Prof Bunsen Well-Known Member

    Someone get a BB shotgun. ;-)
    Froggy Fool likes this.
  15. MWoO

    MWoO Well-Known Member

    (I wasn't active on the boards when this all went down so since no one will let the thread die I will add my two cents)

    I think part of the reason some people have not gotten over the change is because many expected Steve to be Kermit until he retired. No other Muppet performer has been flat out fired. Even Kevin Clash technically retired due to the controversy. He might even be allowed to work with Sesame again someday for all we know.

    This is also the first time a departure was done kind of unceremoniously. Steve didn't play ball with Disney's press release and decided to tell his version of events, which were a bit ugly. Oddly enough, this painted him as being the difficult performer Disney and Brian Henson said he was. It's a catch 22. Disney probably did it on purpose too. If Steve went along with their press release that this was mutual, then Disney is in the clear. If Steve refuses to say it was mutual and fights back, then Disney can say "See? He's being difficult!". There was no win for Steve here, other than to try to move along. Though there isn't really anywhere for him to move along too anymore unfortunately.

    Also something to ponder is that Steve did not work with Brian Henson on Happy Time Murders or any other Henson production before or after his firing. Even the blacklisted Kevin Clash worked on Happy Time Murders (with thankfully no one mentioning he is Elmo's former performer, looks like that unpleasantness is behind us). This too lends credence to the idea that Henson found him difficult as well and enforces Disney's reasoning. Many people don't like that Steve was basically hung out to dry by both Disney and Henson because they feel they know Steve based on his performances and appearances, but truth is no one really knows what it is like to work with him unless you have worked with him.

    So, in many ways, a performer dying is almost easier to accept than a performer being discharged and basically blacklisted. They didn't just recast Kermit, they fired a long time performer who worked learned from Jim himself. They took away Rizzo, a character that he created when he took a random rat puppet and decided to give it personality. For many its as if a personal friend or even family member got fired.

    Do I think Disney made the right choice for Kermit? Actually, yes. I love Steve as a performer and I adore just about everything he has done. However.... I did not like his version of Kermit for some time. Steve is just too... proper as Kermit. Steve's Kermit would shout "please" anytime he got upset, so as not to seem rude. His Kermit rarely if never threatened to fire anyone. His Kermit got depressed until his friends came to save him, when Kermit was always the one who gave everyone else strength (even in MTM when Kermit got down for a bit, he got himself back up because that is what a leader does). Kermit is a lot like Jim. Jim was the leader, he was respectful and sincere, but he was also a bit of a prankster. Kermit lost that with Steve. It was likely a mix of writing and performing, but considering one of the straws that broke the camel's was Steve saying Kermit wouldn't lie to Robin (which totally goes against the premise of the entire plot of that episode), I think Steve was the force behind making Kermit a goody-goody all the time. I think Matt will bring Kermit closer to his roots as a character and ultimately be better for Kermit.
  16. Sgt Floyd

    Sgt Floyd Well-Known Member

    Gee. It's almost like this thread is stickied and the first thing people see when they come to this board. I wonder why people are finding it and posting in it :search:
  17. Prof Bunsen

    Prof Bunsen Well-Known Member

    I think the Right Honourable Gentleman MWoO just summed it up here.

    Now can we finally have ORDAH and accept the hard truth that show business can get a little ugly?!
    MuppetsRule likes this.
  18. TheWoodringman

    TheWoodringman Well-Known Member

    This is why I haven't watched anything muppet related in a while, all the toxicity around this ruined it for me.
    FletchySRF3088 likes this.
  19. D'Snowth

    D'Snowth Well-Known Member

    There is no one fandom that's totally immune to a little toxicity - even some of the more decent fandoms like this have occasional bouts of toxicity . . . it's not something you can escape, unless you just give up on fandoms altogether.
  20. Sgt Floyd

    Sgt Floyd Well-Known Member

    at least it hasn't leaked outside the fandom. some fandoms have such a bad and toxic reputation that if you admit you like that thing, people immediately think the worst. like my little pony.
    TheWoodringman likes this.

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