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The End Of What We Grew Up With As Kids

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by beaker, Jun 21, 2011.

  1. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    I've noticed TOO many live action/CGI hybrids that just are done... done completely wrong. Wooden actors pretending that something there that doesn't exist and plays off nothing and can't react or act period when some cartoony thing is pasted on top. I mean, even worse than Star Wars prequel style.

    Case in point... Garfield. Now, the ONLY character that was CGI was the fat cat, and he was able to bounce around and do things that none of the other characters could. It wasn't believable to begin with, to make matters worse all the other animals were live action.

    Then you check out the CGI DTV Garfield movies. They aren't the greatest things in the world, granted... but at least with everyone being a CGI cartoon, it works better on that level.

    A lot has to do with aesthetics. But then again, I'd be lying if I said Underdog and Inspector Gadget would have been better if the dogs in those movies were CGI anthropomorphic type characters, similar to their cartoon counterparts. Those movies were terrible in their own way. Still, I'd much rather a completely CGI Underdog movie with a good script.

    The one thing I have to say made TMNT 4 work was making it entirely CGI, noting a live action movie would have to have CGI Turtles pasted it. There was no way anyone wanted to go back to using animatronics, even though they're the reason why the first 3 movies were so memorable....of course, frankly the way they screwed up TMNT II Secret of the OOze, I always found TMNT 4 to be a far superior movie almost on par with the first.
  2. CensoredAlso

    CensoredAlso Well-Known Member

    Right I mean, one would think the smart thing to do would be to channel the movies that were actually successful. But silly me! :insatiable:

    I'm in the middle I guess. Parts of Secret of the OOze were definitely pretty embarrassing, lol. It was your typical let down but harmless sequel. TMNT was a big improvement in some ways. But I don't put it on par with the first Turtles film because the writing was simply too convuluted. The first film also did the Leo/Raph conflict much better.

    I have to agree with Nostalgia Critic on that aspect of TMNT: "Leo's logic is crazy. Raph's anger is pointless." Lol
  3. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    The problem with TMNT is that A) the movie was supposed to be the first step forward in a line of future movies... they didn't happen because Mirage and Imagi (which probably would have gone bankrupt anyway) couldn't agree to a plot and B) it seems to be more reminiscent of the Tales of the TMNT comics, which dealt with some weird storylines like that.

    HOWEVER, I commend the movie for several reasons:

    1) It was NOT a reboot. It took place in the middle of a storyline, rather than repeating the same story we've heard oh so many times in comics, cartoons, and various other media.

    2) by that same token, it did NOT feature Shredder. That's one of the reasons I disliked what SOTO, which I'll get into later. Having a TMNT movie franchise ONLY focus on Shredder is like having a Batman franchise that ONLY focuses on the Joker... though the Joker has been in more Batman films than any of the other villains (including Mask of the Phantasm and the 1960's International Markets release). I applaud the use of Karai, and not having to introduce who she is. It was sort of a turn off for casual 80's fans, sure.... but we got a LOT more plot and action instead of introductions (which is the problem with Green Lantern... too much back story)

    3) It was a heck of a lot less jarring to kids who watched the current cartoon series. I swear that, even though it is one of my favorites and still is, I just got confused by Mikey not saying Dude every 5 seconds and acting almost like Raph did, Raph being an angry Jerk, and Don not being technologically inclined. The movie actually felt like movie version of the current show at the time. Ironically, it has almost the same exact tone as the first 3 films.... the cartoon, that is.

    The problem with Ooze was that it was a typical super villain revenge story plot. We wound up with another story about Shredder (with such a goony ending) instead of focusing on someone like Baxter Stockman or even the Rat King (even if they had to turn him into the cartoon version). Casey Jones was banned from the film, replaced with an inexplicable Asian kung fu guy. And worst of all, the action completely stops so that Vanilla Ice could siphon a large chunk of money and "perform" his only other "hit." Though the "A little TOO Raph" line never fails to kill me. I like the third better because HEY! Casey Jones.

    Still the angry Raph complaints are bunk. The first movie was ALL about Raph being angry.
  4. CensoredAlso

    CensoredAlso Well-Known Member

    Yeah but for me Raph in the first movie was really like a tormented teenage boy, with layers and depth and humor. Raph in the newer cartoon and in TMNT just felt like a generic "Grrr I'm angry." Just my $0.02. ;)
  5. beatnikchick300

    beatnikchick300 Well-Known Member

    Personally, I think the less fast food appeals to children, the better, but about everything else, you're right on. Glad I was a '90s kid...
  6. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    Personally, I wish that kid's programming didn't need funding from junk food advertisements, but it has to be. And since it isn't we're getting all these dangerous get rich quick/get healthy without effort infomercials instead. That stuff's not good for anyone.

    I highly support the kid's meal. That's the small portion of junk foods kids SHOULD be eating, rather than Big Macs, Taco Bell nacho boats and all that other stuff really fat guys eat. And besides, the toys are far better and cheaper than those plastic pieces of overpriced garbage you find at Target and Wal*Mart (because there isn't even a reasonable chain of toy stores anymore, that means less variety). A small hamburger/cheeseburger, small soda, and small fires OCCASIONALLY is alright. it's these lazy (or overworked) parents that use McD's and BK as a cafeteria that's the problem. Everything in moderation, and junk food ads NEED to share TV ad time with stuff like THIS:

    They used to have a LOT of these on television... now all we got is lame crap with Disney movies awkwardly added in... and for very stupid PSA's too... Watch out for the Mail Truck? Is there an epidemic of stupid kids running into specifically mail trucks lately? Didn't hear the media sensationalize it.

    I've always said these advocates have their heads up their collected butts because they care so much about what's ON the wrapper and not what goes into it. Weaning these companies off certain ingredients is what we SHOULD be doing, not putting them in plain brown wrappers behind the counter with the condoms and X-rated magazines. I'm glad some strides have been made giving GOOD food to the poverty stricken, and adding more phys-ed classes in schools, though. But that stuff is at a snail's pace. Nutrition is NOTHING without solid activity. I'm a proponent of getting a daily exercise period, not just for kids, but for office buildings. That's why the adults are unhealthy. Hours sitting around, stress making everyone artificially tired... who wants to go to the gym for an hour when they come home tired?
    newsmanfan likes this.
  7. beaker

    beaker Well-Known Member

  8. beaker

    beaker Well-Known Member

    I agree. Jedi still has the same effect on me as it did in 83(tho even that has been all cg'd up...thanks Lucas!) But my mind is just not tricked or brought to a place of acceptance when theres a bunch of cgi in a film. I liked The Dark Knight as theres not an over reliance on that stuff...or if there is, its well hidden.
  9. beaker

    beaker Well-Known Member

    It's true, you can eat as little or healthy as you want, but if you dont get much exercise...it won't be too good. I believe all able bodied people owe their bodies the ability to do regular exercise/walking/cycling/gym/etc

    Now to DrTooth:

    - I honestly cant think of too many cgi kids movies that truly wowed me or I'd ever want to see again outside of Pixar. The only ones I can think of are Up, Monsters vs Aliens, Chicken Little(tho still Disney), Robots and TMNT

    - Regarding TMNT, I thought it was virtually flawless, one of the best films of 2007 in my mind. I HATE SotO and the TMNT III film. Saw em once, refuse to watch em again. The first TMNT from early 1990 is my second fave film of all time, and is just a visionary piece of cinematic history. I was excited about the 2003 cartoon, and they got a lot right...but I lost interest a year later. I know you followed it all the way to 2009, but I just wasnt into it after awhile. I appreciate it tho. The Nickeolodeon stuff projected for 2012...I cant say enough bad or nasty things about that and I feel fans should boycott it

    - Kids films that blend live action and cgi, be they all those dumb Narnia inspired films or Garfield/Smurf/Yogi type movies...has there ever been a decent one? I cant think of any. These dont light a candle to Goonies, Never Ending Story or Back to the Future 1 and 2. And not merely rose colored glasses, actually going back recently and seeing these they are really excellent films that hold up

    - Fast food happy meals was a highlight of my youth. I was beyond poor, so often these might have been the only toy I would have gotten aside from the occasional toy I found or got at the thrift store. (On a side note, how come they never makenintendo or video game action figures, just weird activity versions of Nintendo stuff. As Pokemon has a bunch of figures in the current McD toyline)

    - I remembering getting up at 5am every single saturday morning between 1981 and 1992 to watch saturday morning cartoons. Now days if Im not working, Im hard pressed to get out of bed before noon. But back then, it was amazing to see all those oddball cartoons like Mighty Orbots, Kid Video, COPS, Tiger Sharks, Bionic Six, or classics like Muppet Babies, Fraggle Rock, Gummi Bears, New Adv of Winnie the Pooh, etc. The commericals were amazing and added to the fun. It was such an innocent time. People are shocked when I talk about growing up in the early-mid-late 80's as most folks who dont know me well assume Im in my early 20's, but I could not be more grateful for the 80's as well as being dirt poor in the 80's.

    I just wish to recapture that time...

    Remember when just WATCHING a friend play Nintendo, watching people play at the arcade or a stupid <-- --> handheld lcd game could entrance you for HOURS on end, every single day? Yeah, I miss those days.

    And heres something to everyone reading: What happened to 2d cel animation? I defy anyone to say Roger Rabbit, Fantasia, Alice in Wonderland 1951, etc doesnt still look amazing today.
  10. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    I'm gonna give TMNT Nick a chance. I'm not 100% about the look... but considering 4Kids and Playmates once projected a series where the turtles met baby versions of themselves and that whole... well...


    It has to be pretty bad to drag the characters down.

    But if it IS a failure, because it's owned by one company now, we'll never see them again. I am kinda getting out of them for anything other than nostalgia factor.

    On the plus side of having less cartoons, we have less Double Dragons/Street Sharks/Mary Kate and Ashley Olsen Super Spies/Evolution the series type mind warping garbage. Still, I kinda wonder what the appeal of Johnny Test is that it's still on television. It's not bad, but it's like one of those shows you reluctantly watch to pass the time for something BETTER that came after it.

    The funny thing is, I spent most of today (I'm bored for some reason) watching some of my favorite 90's cartoons... the animation was kinda murky and messy and sloppy. I do like how digital animation cleans up things and we have less wrong characters talking out of the wrong characters and zoomed in to cover up animation screw ups.... but I kinda miss the look of cel painted animes.
  11. CensoredAlso

    CensoredAlso Well-Known Member

    I can understand why that's prefered of course, hehe, but ultimately it's the quality of the actors and the writing that can often make up for shoddy animation, lol.
  12. Gonzo's Hobbit

    Gonzo's Hobbit Well-Known Member

    I'm wondering if some people in the entertainment area are realizing things like this because I'm seeing a slight revival of things. Not too much. But for example, I just saw an ad for the new Winnie the Pooh movie coming out which looks like the same style as the old one. and we were talking in another thread how puppetry is making a little bit of a comeback. Again, I still think we have a long way to go but it's slightly encouraging.
  13. The Shoe Fairy

    The Shoe Fairy Well-Known Member

    Here here! That is probably the truest thing I've seen all week. I find it utterly strange when people dress their toddlers in skinny jeans and nike sneakers and then hand them their smartphone in the pram, to make them shut up and look like minature versions of their parents. It's ridiculous, not to mention creepy when you see girls that are like 10 years old wearing more makeup than everyone else at the bus stop, combined. Ugh.
  14. beaker

    beaker Well-Known Member

    @Dr Tooth: Have to disagree...a lot of modern kids cartoons are over simplistic, ADHD flash looking crap. Take any nick jr, cartoon network/adult swim, etc. All flash style, which began to creep in with power puff, dexter's lab, etc. Animation reached an apex with Invader Zim and not only never reached that peak...but has been on a decline. I kind of like the style of GI Joe Renegades for some reason. It's funny how the ill fated "Governator" series was trying to mimic the 1992/1993 tv cartoon look(ala Xmen)
    That Watchmen cartoon parody on youtube is funny, as again it apes the 93/94 look.

    You're more generous than I in terms of Nicks TMNT. My love of TMNT will never shake, but thats because theres so much great toi-tools stuff. The Dreamwave comics, the GBA/DS games, the original series, the b/w comics, the 93 color mirage comics, the playmates line, the OVA from 1995, the amazing TMNT 90 and 2007 films, the 2k3 series, the 1989 arcade game and its sequel.

    Speaking of great shows of yesteryear, I just picked this up for $15 at Walmart! They had one left, and I had no idea it was even being made: http://www.amazon.com/Rockos-Modern-Life-Season-Tom-Kenny/dp/B004RBC5IS

    (one of my all time fave cartoon series!)
  15. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    I've seen cartoons with BOTH shoddy acting and poor animation... care to take a guess on what I'm talking about?

    There are ALWAYS revivals. There's always been. We just happen to notice it recently. Jay Ward once tried to revive Bullwinkle in 1979/1980 with some new cartoons he didn't sell at the time, but they fell through and nothing came of it. Look at Batman. He's ALWAYS revived. Him and Scooby-Doo... they're always part of some cartoon series in every decade. Scoob's only major road block was the mid-late 90's when he only survived by reruns and DTV movies. Now it's like, every 2 years when a show ends, another takes its place. Brave and the Bold seemed to pop up a year or so after The Batman ended.

    The problem with revivals is they're a double edged sword. The best you can hope for is that the kids like it, because I find a lot of people are just too stubborn to give a new version of something a chance. EVEN if they're made with fans in mind. Sure, there is always garbage like New George of the Jungle (who was that even for?). But I still find Extreme Ghostbusters (just that horrible buzz word name bugs me) got a bad rap. Unlike most of the other revivals, instead of being a complete reboot, it was a legit continuation that made reference to the old show.

    Plus, I always hear complaints about why X was cancelled and there's no more episodes, but when they bring them back they always HATE the episodes... and if they don't they instinctively hate what replaces it... it's something I'm tired of hearing.

    I was referring to digital ink and paint with traditional animation. Like Young Justice. Man, I LOVE the look of that cartoon. I LOVE the full animation and character designs. Good strong action cartoons still manage to have a nice look to them. I REALLY hate the look of Flash cartoons on television. I mean, you ever see a Flash cartoon on the internet now? Those things look like fully animated Saturday Morning shows... almost theatrical quality.

    The best 2-D cel painted limited TV animation came from Japan in the 80's and 90's. I mean, look at a Ducktales episode done by TMS... the characters almost seem to keep a Carl Barks quality to them. Then compare the TOEI animated Muppet Babies to the junky studio that did it the last 2 seasons... the animation quality difference is shocking. But hald the studios MWS used were either REALLY good or REALLY bad. I swear, they used the A studios of TMNT and the B studio for Toxic Crusaders. I mean, I LOVE those guys, but I watched one yesterday, the animation was just very sloppy, and they reused quite a bit in the same episode... and it was obvious. The dialogue sparkled through, though...

    Seriously miss when anime was more rubbery and grainy, though... I'm liking the fact that we're seeing fuller animation. At least those people KNOW how to use digital shortcuts the right way.
  16. CensoredAlso

    CensoredAlso Well-Known Member

    About that Baby dinosaur movie from the '80s, here's an interesting perspective on the non-CGI effects at the time (Starlog Magazine, 1985). Wow, I remember when animatronics were the big thing, lol:

  17. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    Saturday Morning's latest casualty... ABC Kids (which sucked for years) finally gave up, and now is making room for...

    Litton's crapfest Weekend

    Full of the same dull nature and tediously impossible to watch live action shows that local syndication stations put on at 5 Am to fulfill a pointless FCC requirement.

    Anything I can say would be redundant, and I didn't give a crap about ABC kids since they actually had programming on, and I bet the same genius that killed the soap programming for "The Chew" (a show that somehow absolutely needed to be made and that absoultely everyone will watch, really) sold the block to some rinky dink live action garbage fest producer.
  18. TSSD

    TSSD Well-Known Member

    Man, ABC Kids is gone? That sucks. I remember when it used to have good shows, instead of Hannah Montana and Suite life, and pretty much the exact same things that air on the equally crappy Disney Channel every other minute. They should have taken a page from the 90's Are All That, and made it a block showing old, good Disney Channel shows.
  19. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    Yeah, I got my hopes up that they'd run Phineas and Ferb, but then again, they didn't even finish off Emperor's New School or The Replacements, and I had to watch the end of those shows online. They showed all but 3 episodes of the first season since 2006. Not even adding in the holiday episodes. The shows ended in 2008, and they didn't even manage to show any of the second season since.

    So basically, fail gets replaced by fail. I miss One Saturday Morning. That was an attempt. This was a lazy FCC requirement, the ratings were sliding for years... now they're replacing it with junk no one's going to watch anyway (they say it's for tweenagers, but tweenagers SLEEP IN on Saturday Mornings). Almost seems like a lateral move.

    Saturday Morning is dead... or barely alive hooked up to an iron lung and a complete vegetable. CBS's girly Cookie Jar blah fest, NBC's worst shows from Qubo snooze a rama and 4Kid's PLEASE! Let Sonic X DIE already line up are the only things really left. Fox is all infomercials, and has been for 2 years now.
  20. Gonzo's Hobbit

    Gonzo's Hobbit Well-Known Member

    I remember on Saturday mornings I'd get up and watch the Bugs Bunny Daffy show. It's actually kinda fuuny becaus eI recall the decline of Saturday mornings. We'd always watch Looney Tunes which was always great. Then they stopped playing that and we'd watch nicktoons (Hey Arnold, Angry Beavers, etc) It wasn't the same but it was pretty good. Then those shows started getting replced by other shows and before you know it (like you guys said) the idea of Saturday Morning Cartoons was a foreign concept. The same thing happened with Toon Disney. It got turned into Disney XD which had a bunch of live action shows. Ironically (at least I think it's Ironic) I noticed the decline of Toon Disney when they showed a muppet movie as one of the afternoon movies. I remember thinking, I love the muppets but what are they doing on a cartoon channel?

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