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Your Thoughts: The Muppets Season 1 Episode 103 - Bear Left Then Bear Write

Discussion in 'Muppet Headlines' started by Phillip, Oct 6, 2015.

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What did you think of "The Muppets" episode "Bear Left Then Bear Write"?

  1. Absolutely positively! This episode was great!

    32 vote(s)
    64.0%
  2. Bork bork! This episode was good.

    15 vote(s)
    30.0%
  3. Mee mee. This episode was so-so.

    2 vote(s)
    4.0%
  4. You're all weirdos! This episode was disappointing.

    1 vote(s)
    2.0%

  1. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member


    Ehhhh... no. Older franchises are still relevant today because they have larger fansbases. Seriously. Everyone outside of this board is a causal fan at best. Even then, those other franchises keep cranking out expanded universe novels and comics and stuff outside of bigger media presences. Oh, and they totally still make stuff anyway, those franchises are so big they can afford having older fans whine about them and ignore them all day. Except they TOTALLY still go to those movies and stuff just to make sure they hate them. It's like they hate everything new in the franchise, and continue to support it out of spite.

    But even if they didn't, the franchises and fanbase are strong enough to run on fumes, provided they keep buying enough nostalgic crap to warrant its inclusion on store shelves.

    Thing is, the Muppet fandom is very fragile, and it's franchise even more so. Disney can subside on Frozen merchandise alone and still have a high stock. You think they give a rat's fez about anything that isn't Frozen or Star Wars? The fact they even gave the Muppets a second chance as a TV show after MMW is pretty miraculous. And this will sadly be up to the general public, because I'm sure none of us have Nielsen boxes (which are a scam anyway). If they're the same insultingly fickle audiences that love seeing something once and then pull their hair out when that love equals a follow up which will always be the worst thing ever for simply being a sequel, the show is screwed.

    Our fanbase isn't just small as heck, it's slowly becoming as freaking awful as the Sonic the Hedgehog one. Next hurdle after that one is Transformers, where half the fandom is 30+ year olds whining that Hasbro doesn't make only $100+ collector's toys because that's unsustainable. Every freaking project is an apple of discord. And has been for over 20 years. This is too kiddy, this is too adult, this is not adult enough, this isn't exactly the same, they don't get the characters this way, they don't get the characters that way. We're never going to get The Muppet Show factory freshness sealed exactly the same way. Why must every project live up to one thing they did one time? Because nostalgia? Because elitism? The Muppets can and have done worse than this show in the past, and the same fans complained the exact same complaints about them. We're never getting the same thing back because too many people died or moved on. Just like we're never going to get "What's Opera Doc?" anymore from Looney Tunes, but we can hope we don't get Space Jam or Loonatics out of them anymore.

    I'm tired, so very tired of having to defend the heck out of every project only to read the same complaints from the same people for the same reasons. And I get that. You don't like things a certain way, and that's cool. But it's the level of the complaining that bugs me. The whole air of "I'm right because I'm negative and anyone that doesn't agree with me is wrong, and man do I want this project to fail and when it does it's ONLY because hypothetical people agree with me." By all means, stop supporting the franchise if you don't like anything new going on. There's a difference between saying "I don't like this and here's why" and obsessively watching for more reasons to complain to say "Here are specific reasons I don't like this fro this week." There's plenty of good old fashion stuff you grew up with. Just watch that over and over. That's what you want, that's what you get. Don't try and be a "not drinking the Kool-Aid" type that purposely poopoos on things to seem right about an opinion.

    I'm done trying to defend things.
     
  2. heralde

    heralde Well-Known Member

    First it's nostalgic fans, now it's casual fans? Seriously, it's just fans. Talk about elitism...

    Just because the majority of Muppet fans aren't "fanboys/girls" doesn't mean they don't count and doesn't mean they don't have influence.

    The problem is you think you're the only one defending the Muppets and that there's only one way to do it.
     
    Ladywarrior likes this.
  3. caper

    caper Member

    This is a pretty funny show.

    But the voices are still iffy.

    Jim Henson and Frank Oz are truly magical and greatly missed.

    This is a good show but these muppets doesn't come close to the original.


    Please don't tell me that the season 1 DVD of this show will come out before the Muppet Show seasons 4 and 5.
     
  4. MuppetsRule

    MuppetsRule Well-Known Member

    Pot meet kettle

    You're the one that seems to take the attitude that I'm right so everybody else is wrong. It is possible for "nostalgic" "old" "casual" fans to be critical of the show without hating it and wanting it to fail. There is a range in-between I love everything about the new show and I want it to fail miserably. No need to take everything to the extreme.
     
    Ladywarrior likes this.
  5. Ladywarrior

    Ladywarrior Well-Known Member

    hey dr. tooth. who says it's their last chance? You? Since when did your opinion suddenly become Word Of God? If this show got canceled and someone decided to bring them back later I'd want to see that too. Also people still by muppet merchandise today so cancelling this show won' suddenly cause muppet fans to stop wanting anything o do with them. I mean I still see Kermit the frog plushies dressed as santa claus at christmas time. :/

    also as the others said just because there are people who don't think the new show is perfect and OHSOTOTLYAWESOMEDURRR doesn't mean we're not fans. The Muppet Show had flaws it was not godly perfect either. You can enjoy something even with its flaws.
     
  6. Oscarfan

    Oscarfan Well-Known Member

    If I recall correctly, the Muppets beat out the season premiere of the Flash.
     
    Duke Remington likes this.
  7. JimAndFrank

    JimAndFrank Well-Known Member

    *gives a heavy sigh and starts to sulk out of the forum*

    This is why I've been tempted to leave the Forum. The senseless bickering and-....... whatever, I'm not getting into this.

    *walks out of forum and slams door shut with an echoing bang*
     
  8. heralde

    heralde Well-Known Member

    It's not senseless nor is it bickering. DrTooth and I have these debates all the time, lol. I think some fans are (rightly) perturbed at being accused, more than once, of not being real fans just because they didn't like this one particular show. Some perspective is required here.
     
    Ladywarrior likes this.
  9. Duke Remington

    Duke Remington Well-Known Member

    It's never about the voices. It's about the acting!

    Man, I wish people would stop complaining about the voices and realize that the acting comes first (especially since these puppeteers we're talking about, not voice actors) and the voice comes second.
     
    Pig's Laundry likes this.
  10. heralde

    heralde Well-Known Member

    I wouldn't be at all surprised.
     
  11. LaRanaRene

    LaRanaRene Well-Known Member

    I agree with tooth. If this show were to get cancelled (it won't) and nobody picked it up, I don't think the Muppets would be around for a while.
     
    Duke Remington likes this.
  12. heralde

    heralde Well-Known Member

    If the show keeps going the way it is, the Muppets arguably won't be around anyway.
     
    Ladywarrior likes this.
  13. Ladywarrior

    Ladywarrior Well-Known Member

    sadly this is very true.
     
  14. heralde

    heralde Well-Known Member

    Well on the other hand (and this is what gets me a lot of grief here, heh) but the way I look at it is this is a franchise that had four hugely successful TV series and at least six successful films. Struggling to find a reinvention doesn't mean the franchise is no longer around in the public consciousness.
     
  15. caper

    caper Member

    What??!!! Acting first??!!! On Puppets??!!! Sorry they ARE VOICE actors. Puppeteering and voice comes first then dialogue comes second.

    That is like saying the best acting of Darth Vader is what counts. BUT if the voice is NOT James Earl Jones or sounds like him then that Best Acting means NOTHING. And that's a human example, while your talking about puppets.

    Their voices and personalities are what give these characters life. Those voices are iconic. You can be the best actor puppeteer but if your voice sucks it won't be believable.

    They can't produce the same magic that Jim Henson and Frank Oz did from the Muppet Show to the Muppets take Manhattan.
     
    Ladywarrior and heralde like this.
  16. heralde

    heralde Well-Known Member

    Caper is right. I get that the Muppet performers don't like being called voice actors, it's a different talent, I understand that. But I'm also thinking of an old clip of the Disney animators saying if you change a character's voice, it creates a different personality. And when we say voice, we mean the whole package - inflection, etc.

    That and the connection the performers had to their characters. Jim and Frank were close friends and that gave an extra layer to Kermit and Piggy's relationship. Richard Hunt was that kid who was desperate to get into show biz and please everybody.
     
    Ladywarrior likes this.
  17. Muppet Master

    Muppet Master Well-Known Member

    Actually, The Muppets easily beat the Flash in the ratings (1.7 vs 1.4), so I doubt it has to do with that. Every show has substantial drops in the weeks following its premiere, look at The Goldbergs, week 1: 3.1, week 2: 2.2, week 3: 1.9, following that the show stabilized, and got renewed. I mean I really hope this does not drop to horrible numbers, and gets cancelled, because that is it. They failed a movie, and if they fail a TV show then back to nothing but the occasional Youtube video. What I fear the most is this show being cancelled after the 13 episodes, and being remembered as "Oh remember that stupid adult muppet show from 2013 or 2016 or something, it was so lame." The irratating part is, everyone chants for a new muppet show or "Disney can you please REBOOT the muppet show." Then they get something, and they reject it. As much as I love TMS it was not the perfect show everyone pictures it as. This one day I read a comment on Youtube it said "The muppet show was okay, but the writing wasn't that good, and there was too little plot." As much as I really didn't agree with the writing not being good, I applaud that commenter for being probably the only person who didn't just say "muppet show is the best show ever". Seriously, this new show is fixing a lot of TMS flaws. Honestly, half the songs were uneccesary some of the time, why do we have to see random muppets singing 20's songs, that's not why I bought the season sets, I don't want to see a random whatnot singing row row row your boat, I want to see Kermit trying to keep the show together backstage, Fozzie trying out his act, Gonzo riding a motorcycle, maybe a muppet labs sketch or two, add in a pigs in space, and a guest star song, but we don't need random uneccesary muppets singing boring songs. Neverntheless, I still love TMS, but I really wish they would cut down on unecccesary songs like those, and have more scenes backstage, and some funny sketches, and the guest star songs are fine, but those random songs that add nothing to the show really didn't work, this is what this new show is trying to fix. Fozzie getting shot by a tranquillizer, Miss Piggy getting arrested, this is the muppet show I always wanted, plus now there is a big budget, we get different locations, and great stories, why are people hating this show, this is the dream muppet show.
     
  18. Muppet Master

    Muppet Master Well-Known Member

    I can't see anyone wanting to make a new movie or TV show out of something that has failed, I'm sorry, but if this show does not succed, I doubt that Disney will put in time and effort into new muppet projects.
     
    Drtooth likes this.
  19. heralde

    heralde Well-Known Member

    First season clumsiness aside, the writing was very good on Muppet Show. No, there wasn't an emphasis on plot, but there didn't have to be. The Muppets are endearing insanity. No one watched the Marx Brothers for the plots either.

    I'm glad that my tastes were opened a bit due to Muppet Show though. I wouldn't have heard those songs otherwise. It's not for everyone, but it did give Muppet Show a timeless feel. Again, like Star Wars hearkening back to Buck Rogers and John Williams using orchestrations instead of synth. If you go too modern and up to the minute, your show will quickly become dated.

    And while you personally may not have liked those aspects of Muppet Show, I doubt Disney has it in their minds to fix anything. I doubt most of them have watched Muppet Show lately to even have problems with it. All they're thinking about right now is trying (some would say a bit too hard) to be current.

    That's what Robot Chicken is for. ;)

    It's happened. You need a person with a vision and the right connections.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2015
  20. Muppet Master

    Muppet Master Well-Known Member

    I am not against TMS, it is one of my favrorite shows of all time, why else would I pay like 20 bucks for a season set, but I am just saying I would rather have more moments like this.




    Then something like this.



    I am not against the songs sung by recognizable muppets or the guest stars, but stuff like this is just pointless, and nothing I would want to watch, I want Kermit, Fozzie, and the other loveable characters.
     

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