A Miss Piggy Question that Ive had for about 10 years

ceresmary

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Hi! My name is Ceresmary and I am new here! This comes from my husband and I watching M*A*S*H for the "Umpteenth" time, and him going off, "Well, is Miss Piggy based on Margaret Hulihan or is Margaret Hulihan based on Miss Piggy? And if you watch Mash for any period of time, that's a real good question!:smile:

They really do share quite a lot of same simularities! When Margaret gets made she has the same (Hi Karate Miss Piggy) temper as Piggy, and when she gets lovey dovey with Frank, she is the same as (Kermit and Piggy!) Piggy.

Anyone have any insight on this, or anyone have anywhere to go to ask Frank Oz about this? We have been "mashing" our brains out on this one! There is too much alike about them to miss.

Just my (our) thoughts. Thanks!
 

travellingpat

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Was Piggy Pre-MASH anyone? Idk what year MASH started...
 

The Count

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Hi and welcome to the craziness that surrounds us here at MC. The answer to your main question is "neither". As you said, they do share similar traits, but in actuality Miss Piggy was originally based on famed singer Peggy Lee.
That's not the only M*A*S*H/Muppets connection though. Scooter and Radar O'Riley share similar characteristics, and Big Bird's tddy bear was named Radar because it was given to him (or Caroll Spinney) by the actor who portrayed Radar on M*A*S*H. But if you really want to talk about tat toop at the 4077, I recommend you contact D'Snowths via E-mail, as he's our resident long-standing M*A*S*H afficionado. Hope this helps, and have a great time exploring the rest of the forums.
 

Ruahnna

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Piggy and Hot Lips (and no, I'm not repeating myself)

Hey there! I'm willing to be contradicted by someone with a source, but I believe two things are getting mixed up here.

I know I have heard/read that Hot Lips Houlihan was the inspiration for Miss Piggy--I found several sources on the internet that say so, but none that gave an actual quote from Jim Henson or Frank Oz or anyone else. But, growing up with the show and having an avid interest in it, I believe that this may have some basis in fact, simply because it was widely commented on. Keep in mind, though, that Miss Piggy was supposedly based on the character of Hot Lips, not the actress Loretta Swit.

I think the confusion over the Peggy Lee/Piggy Lee came from the fact that when Miss Piggy was originally conceived as a character, she had the last name of "Lee" added to her name. I believe this to be a purely auditory pun, as in "Hey, wouldn't it be funny for Piggy's last name to be Lee, as is Peggy Lee? Ha ha." But the last name of Lee was dropped fairly quickly in cannon, as was Piggy's assertation that her first name was really Pigathius. These anomalous facts show up in Muppet Central's fan fiction as well as numerous fan sites because, well, muppet fans like to show off the weird little things we remember--especially if they are contraditory or odd. Then, when people say, "Her name wasn't really Pigathius, was it?" then the triumphant fan can pounce and say, "Ah ha! She was, too! In the Muppet Show episode with...." (We are beginning to rival Star Trek fans in our mania for trivia.)

Remember, the Muppet Show wasn't the first debut of Miss Piggy. She originally appeared as a singer with Herb Alpert, and at that time wasn't even done by Frank Oz. (Oh, help me here, someone. Was it Fran? I KNOW I wrote this down somewhere, but can't FIND IT NOW!) Anyway, the Piggy that showed up to sing with Herb was not really the Miss Piggy that we saw later. The same puppet was used, and the same name, but personality-wise, it was a different, um, person--at least partly because Piggy had a different muppeteer sitting forward. (I sortof like to think of it like I think of all those different frogs that used to appear on The Muppet Show--they were certainly frogs, but they weren't really Kermit, even though some of them looked an awful lot like him. The real Kermit required Jim--and now, of course, Steve.)

Piggy--the real Piggy--didn't really appear until the first season of The Muppet Show during the glee club skit in which Kermit conducts a whole riser full of barnyard animals. Piggy steps out of the chorus--unrehearsed and unexpected--and takes Kermit by storm by taking over the song--AND declaring her exuberant and fathomless passion for him. This was the start of our girl, and Frank Oz was the genius behind it. Of course, Jim deserves lots of credit too, for marginally holding on to his composure when it happened and allowing the characters--not the actors--to determine what would come of this unexpected declaration. HIs style of leadership not only tolerated this sort of anarchy--it encouraged it and even celebrated it! And he managed to surround himself with people who weren't afraid of pursuing their own ideas about a character, but did it with respect for their fellow talent. This is collaboration of the highest order, and the hallmark of a true leader and a truly creative person. (pant, pant)

(Ru is stepping gingerly off her soapbox and slinking off to bed, where she shoud have been an hour ago.)
 

muppetperson

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Yes, it was widely publicised that Miss Piggy was based on Hot Lips, especially the time when Lorreta Swit appeared on the show.Miss Piggy was in the Planet of the Pigs sketch on the Sex and Violence Muppet Show pitch.Then she had beads for eyes and was puppeteered by Fran Brill.She also appearred on Herb Alpert and the Tijuana Brass Special in 1974, when Jerry Nelson performed her.You can see all this information when you activate Muppet Morsels during the Muppet Glee Club sketch.
 

BEAR

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The Count said:
Hi and welcome to the craziness that surrounds us here at MC. The answer to your main question is "neither". As you said, they do share similar traits, but in actuality Miss Piggy was originally based on famed singer Peggy Lee.
That's not the only M*A*S*H/Muppets connection though. Scooter and Radar O'Riley share similar characteristics, and Big Bird's tddy bear was named Radar because it was given to him (or Caroll Spinney) by the actor who portrayed Radar on M*A*S*H. But if you really want to talk about tat toop at the 4077, I recommend you contact D'Snowths via E-mail, as he's our resident long-standing M*A*S*H afficionado. Hope this helps, and have a great time exploring the rest of the forums.

Actually, I believe it was Mr. Hooper who gave Big Bird the teddy bear.
 

BooberKnowsBest

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I never really thought about it before, but now that you bring it up, i can see the connection between miss piggy and hot lips. haha it is pretty obvious isn't it. boy, i feel kinda sheepish now :embarrassed:
 

The Count

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Well... After that thoroughlyinteresting discussion from our resident Piggy #1 fan... I am certainly willing to admit and conceive that I was in the wrong. I doth my cap to thee Ru, and morely thank you for correcting the information I had as well as educating ll of us on the history of your roomie.

And Bry, maybe that needs to be explained a bit further cause I'm going by the info you gave me back for that SS challenge in Muppet Survivor 2.
 
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