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Frank Oz: "New Muppets Too Cute"

Discussion in 'Muppet Headlines' started by Beauregard, Jul 30, 2012.

  1. D'Snowth

    D'Snowth Well-Known Member

    See, MFS wasn't THAT bad... neither was KSY for that matter.
    LouisTheOtter likes this.
  2. Pinkflower7783

    Pinkflower7783 Well-Known Member

    No MFS was pretty bad. Lol. KSY wasn't far off either but I'll give any Muppet movie merit even MTI and MCC over MWO!!
  3. Beauregard

    Beauregard Well-Known Member

    I love how the Muppets have enough movies in enough different styles and genres to divide even the biggest Muppet fans. I love VMC, but hate KSY, others love MCC and hate MTI...Its the way it will always be!

    Can't wait to see what comes next.
  4. D'Snowth

    D'Snowth Well-Known Member

    TMM, GMC, MTM, MCC, and MTI were all great.

    MFS and KSY aren't nearly as bad as people make them out to be.

    IAVMMCM sucked, worst Muppet movie to date.

    MWoO was a decent enough movie, not the best, but certainly not the worst.

    The Muppets (2011) was a great comeback, and I hope the sequel will be just as good.
  5. Beauregard

    Beauregard Well-Known Member

    *gets all riled up when people say that VMC sucked* *but resisting commenting, as its you and you get a friend-pass* :sigh:
  6. Pinkflower7783

    Pinkflower7783 Well-Known Member

    MFS it looked and sounded like the muppets but to me it wasn't the muppets.
  7. Oscarfan

    Oscarfan Well-Known Member

    But it was a movie. Kermit was merely playing a character that happened to be named Kermit the Frog and lived in a mansion. It's called acting.
  8. D'Snowth

    D'Snowth Well-Known Member

    That brings to mind something else too, Jim has said he never really thought of any of the characters as characters, but rather, puppet actors, and that concept pretty much dates all the way back to Jim's early days, even as far back as Sam & Friends. Look at all the sketches in which Kermit would play any number of random lady singers by wearing a little wig, and even occasionally a choker of pearls. It's also been a big thing on SST as well, like Monsterpiece Theater or even some inserts where the characters play different characters for seemingly no reason (Ernie as Ole King Cole for example).
  9. Pinkflower7783

    Pinkflower7783 Well-Known Member

    Even Kermit said it was just a dramatic version of himself.
    Duke Remington likes this.
  10. ToonGeek

    ToonGeek Well-Known Member

    Now I Agree About Kermit Being Sugar-Coated, Laid Back, Etc
    While I Didn't Grow Up On TMS, I Did Notice Some Adult Humor, Even Though I Not I'm Not An Adult I'm Not 25 As The Age Perdicts I Am, I'm Actually 15, And For Muppet Shows, I Bassicly Grew Up On BITBBH, And I've Heard Of The Muppets, I've Just Never Seen Them Until This Movie, And I Just Got Done Watching The First Three!!, And I Can Say That Those Have A Bit Of Adult Humor Too!!, I Watched MFS, It Was Decent To Me, But I Wouldn't Say It Was GOOD!!, I Also Watched MWoO, And I Got On The Website, And I Can SAY That Sucked!!!, And MTI Also, That Had A Teensy Bit Of Adult Humor, But It Just Didn't Have Enough To Make Me Laugh!!! :attitude:, And I Also Got IAVMMC On The Internet, And I Can Say That Was The WORST Muppet Movie I've Seen!!!, That's All The Muppet Stuff I've Basicilly Watched So Far!!, And Oh Yeah, Now I Can't WAIT For The Sequel!!
  11. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    The "push the envelope" stuff was MUCH worse in MOz. That "nipple" thing was far more disgusting than the innuendo jokes, ad lib or not. Plus, as Simpsonsy and pop cultury as the film was, there was little hints of Muppet sweetness, and there were some good story elements wedged in there. But overall, it works as an overly long TV special, rather than a full fledged movie.

    MOz was just gross and dark and depressing. Even the only good song in the film is just abhorrently and uncharacteristically violent for a Muppet Movie. Piggy is quite disturbing as a villain, and not even in a fun way. Some lyrics include "On a Good Day, I'll have you begging for mercy," "You're gonna wish that you were already dead," and "Look for all the gory details on the 10 O' Clock News." I wouldn't have been surprised if she went full blown "Saw" on Dorothy. I've never heard a villain song that disturbing... and it's STILL the best song in the film.

    And MFS could have been better with the right director. There were some genuinely funny moments at Covnet. And Gonzo's party. Too bad the rest of the movie wasn't like that.
  12. MelissaY1

    MelissaY1 Well-Known Member

    I have no problem that Frank wasn't directly involved with the new film. I didn't expect him to be, and I love Eric Jacobson's work that he's been doing with Frank's characters. I loved his work as Fozzie in this one. Piggy I'm still on the fence with. I know they HAD to make a movie like this, but that's the problem: they felt they HAD to. I think if they had just gone ahead and made a regular Muppet film, like they've done in the past, people would've seen it anyway. A) Because Disney DID hype it up, and B) it had been too long since we saw the Muppets on the big screen.

    Believe me, I'm happy the Muppets came back on screen, and this time I was able to go with my fiancee, my sister, brother in law, and other family members who all grew up with the old generation of characters. Heck, my sister laughed the LOUDEST during parts of this film and really seemed to enjoy it more than I did.

    I have no problem they introduced Walter as a new character, he's really cute and I enjoy him. I cried within the first 5 minutes of the film where he's watching The Muppet Show on the old television because I had a TV just like that watching the Muppet Show growing up. But I disagree that if they did something different it would've been a flop. I think if they just let the Muppets be the Muppets, it would've been successful. And I'm sorry I don't think the characters are what they used to be.
  13. D'Snowth

    D'Snowth Well-Known Member

    I sure am glad other people are FINALLY realizing that Disney HASN'T been handling the Muppets in the greatest of ways, or even to their fullest potential... they just wanted to own the Muppets for the sake of owning them, really nothing more... again, HOW many projects, under Disney's name, were we supposed to get, only to end up being shelved? A new series that was supposed to be a Muppety version of The Office (ugh), and a Halloween special leap to mind, and I know there's others.
  14. Pinkflower7783

    Pinkflower7783 Well-Known Member

    I beg to differ if they had just pulled out some random muppet movie it would've been a flop hate to say that but it would've been. And if you feel that way about the muppets of today that's fine but frankly I think some people need to let go of the past and accept them for who they are today. This isn't the 1970's-1980's anymore Jim Henson is gone and we need to move on. Cause I garuntee you if this film was any other storyline it would've had the opposite affect.

    And I should add Jason WANTED to make this movie. Disney doesn't have to do anything they don't want to. Infact it was Jason who had to convince Disney a few times to green light the thing. All were saying this storyline had to be a reintroduction for new fans. If you still think The Muppets haven't lived up to your expectations then they probably never will and maybe you should avoid anything they do in the future.
    Duke Remington and Drtooth like this.
  15. Pinkflower7783

    Pinkflower7783 Well-Known Member

    Yes and now that the film has made millions and millions of dollars NOW Disney is sitting straight up in their chairs!!! Now the flipper is on the other foot!!! Now DISNEY wants the dang sequel out ASAP!!! Their certainly singing a different tune now aren't they?
    Duke Remington likes this.
  16. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    It possibly couldn't have been a flop, per se... but a gimmick come back would have opened the door for more gimmicks. MCC was followed up by MTI, for example. MFS WAS all gimmick because they wanted another Sci-Fi movie because of Star Wars. Imagine if THAT was a success. We really would have had Muppets Underwater! :news:

    The movie was made by those nostalgic for the classic Muppets, who wanted to see classic Muppet style movies, and incorporated everything possible they remembered into the film (including shoving Muppet babies toys in the back). I can see Frank's perspective of why this seemed backward and safe. That was just trying to redo something that was already in the past. But it does work as a movie franchise relaunch if anything.

    Something tells me if Disney made their own movie, we'd get something similar to VMX in tone, and we wouldn't have had such guest stars. Probably a LOT more Disney Tween Pop characters than we would have liked. That's the influence and pull of the writers and directors. Some people in Hollywood don't get that much, and I don't think even Jim and Kirk could pull enough strings to get some decent cameos in.

    But the fact of the matter is, they did the safe film to test the waters and build the movie franchise back up. If it failed, it would have stood alone, and they probably would have tried again in several years (like Superman), but the fact they succeeded, albeit mildly, they can literally make ANY film they want now, and it will do just as well.
    Duke Remington likes this.
  17. Pinkflower7783

    Pinkflower7783 Well-Known Member

    Yeah and we all know how gimmicks have done in the past. d( ̄  ̄) To me since this movie came out I feel like I do know the Muppets again. Cause for 12 years like I've said before they talked like Muppets and sounded like Muppets but they weren't acting like Muppets.
    Duke Remington likes this.
  18. MelissaY1

    MelissaY1 Well-Known Member

    I'm well aware that this isn't the past, but I don't think that means as a fan I should "move on". I still love the characters, and look forward to new projects, so why should I avoid something in the future if I still enjoy them? I didn't say I hated this movie. I liked it even better than I initially thought I was going to when I first heard they were making a new film, because I DID think it was going to be another MFS, and didn't have high hopes for it. I LIKED IT. A LOT, but just because I didn't LOVE it doesn't mean I should stop being a fan, does it? I mean, I'm glad people enjoyed the film and it did as well as it did, and an Oscar win for Best song is nothing to sneeze at.

    But I don't understand that because I feel differently I should be told to avoid future projects. There's been several Henson projects I've enjoyed since Jim passed away, so my opinion (and that's exactly what it is) isn't solely due to the absence of Jim. I thought Muppet Xmas Carol, MTI, Bear in the Big Blue House, etc. were all great projects. I just felt after the build up "The Muppets" had it fell a little flat, that's all.
  19. MelissaY1

    MelissaY1 Well-Known Member

    I had a similar discussion with someone on Facebook the other day regarding the new Batman films. I HATED these past 3 films in the Dark Knight trilogy, and think a different director and recasts of the characters would make it different. I'm not into Christian Bale as Batman. Never have been, never will be. And my side of the discussion was, that there have already been talks and plans about rebooting the Batman franchise, and they'll keep rebooting them becuase they know it will make money.
  20. mbmfrog

    mbmfrog Well-Known Member

    I have to say I do agree with Mr. Oz here, I mean the entire new Muppets movie felt like Cliche city with a few funny moments in between it and I mean a few. :o

    So yeah, I can see where Oz is coming from as the Muppets, while are are icons for families everywhere, have lost a bit of its edge over the last few years. :sympathy:
    MelissaY1 likes this.

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