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HBO is editing modern Sesame Street episodes

Discussion in 'Sesame Street' started by antsamthompson9, Aug 21, 2016.

  1. gavry3

    gavry3 Well-Known Member

    It's basically a way of showing my reaction to how SS changes a bit too much and how it's a bit irritating when they make some horrible decisions for the show, for example, not taking responsibility to get the rights to their own songs.
     
  2. MuppetSpot

    MuppetSpot Well-Known Member

    Actually we do not know what's going on with all these edits with the HBO I thought it was something with Joe Rapso estate but, looks like other parts are getting edited. So only time will tell us what's going on.
     
  3. Oscarfan

    Oscarfan Well-Known Member

    So a segment is changed every other episode. Big whoop. It's not ideal, but 99% of you aren't watching the shows HBO anyway so why complain?
     
  4. MuppetSpot

    MuppetSpot Well-Known Member

    I have been watching the episodes on HBO. Honesty, I don't care if episodes are getting edited. I am not complaining.
     
  5. Oscarfan

    Oscarfan Well-Known Member

    I wasn't saying it to you. I was throwing it out there to anyone complaining about edits.
     
  6. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    Okay. I think I am confused.

    The Raposo songs being edited are only for the rerun footage 30 minute episodes? I somehow got the feeling it also affects HBO/HBO Go run older episodes.
     
  7. Oscarfan

    Oscarfan Well-Known Member

    No, all the "classic" shows and episodes from seasons 41-45 cut Raposo tracks.
     
  8. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    Ugh.

    That is disgusting. I don't know who's to blame for that, but it's a complete disservice to Sesame Street fans. As much as I'm usually a proponent of releasing old Sesame Street episodes on different platforms, if they can't get the rights to their own songs that were written for them because of some idiotic licensing deal, what's the point? They might as well just keep releasing just clips of episodes online instead of full ones. I know that it shouldn't be an issue and we should be grateful that they're releasing these, but...

    There's things I can totally forgive about Sesame Street from the perspective of it being a show I've outgrown several times over, and kids wouldn't know or care about things they haven't seen until maybe they find out about them later. But this strange problem with securing the rights to songs written for them by someone who was instrumental in shaping the show back in the day is baffling. And yes, I totally understand that music rights are the most insane thing there is out there. This seems like something strangely beyond SW's control, even with WB or HBO's money. And this could be blamed on anything from a shifty estate (though you'd think that his estate would know how important he was to Sesame Street and vice versa) to greedy old farts that buy up rights to songs for the sake of owning them and making money having the rights have to pass through them. But for whatever reason, someone has to get their crap together and work something out for a show's use of a song written specifically for the show.
     
  9. Censored

    Censored Well-Known Member

    What can you expect...?
     
  10. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    I doubt this is something they can easily control, to be fair. The blame lies mostly on whatever copyright holder his songs are in the hands of. Why they're refusing to let the show the songs were written utilize them in these legally released episodes is a matter of stubbornness, ineptitude, and greed. On the plus side, it means CTW didn't forcibly take the rights to his songs back in the day, letting him have an independent publishing copyright. Creators rights and all. Though in this case, they probably should have. CTW/SW never actually owned the Muppet characters made for the show up until EMTV went under and they just gave those characters to SW when Henson bought the rest of it back just before selling TMS and Bear characters to Disney.

    So whatever the reason, whoever owns the copyrights to Raposo's songs doesn't feel like dealing with SW, no matter how much of WB's home video or HBO's money they can throw at them. Wouldn't be surprised if they turned around and used them for laxative commercials before the show they were written for can use them.
     
  11. minor muppetz

    minor muppetz Well-Known Member

    It was said in Street Gang that the shows producers decided to let the songwriters keep the copyrights on songs written for the show, in part because it helped get talented songwriters to contribute to the show. I wonder if the policy ever changed (it seems like later songs have been published to "Sesame Street, Inc." or something like that).

    I was surprised when i read that, because original songs have been used again and again. Very few original songs have been cut from home video releases, many of the most iconic songs have been redone on the show and in albums so many times, I guess part of it could have come from good relationships between the song writers and CTW (and many of them stayed with the show for many years).
     
  12. D'Snowth

    D'Snowth Well-Known Member

    Well heck, look at all the many artists out there who have covered "Sing," and not even for the show.
     
  13. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    That's where it gets into a prickly artist rights issue. I'm strongly for artists' rights and all, I know what went down with Jack Kirby and all and it sucked. I applaud the fact that modern Batman projects credit Bill Finger (finally), and when it comes to music, I hate how even some families can't control who uses their music. Elvis's survivors weren't happy with those Viva Viagra commercials and were powerless to stop it. And I give CTW/SW credit for letting the musicians have the rights to their songs and Henson for letting them have the rights to the Muppet characters on the show (which is why the characters could easily be swapped around from show to show and movie cameos, just with a CTW credit at the end), but unfortunately the fact that the music rights are now screwed up that badly just takes the goodwill out of this collaborative effort.

    Whatever estate and whoever owns the rights to certain songs now is being a little...I dunno...I don't want to be extremely dismissive about this, I'd like to see what their end of the perspective is. If it's a falling out between the estate and SW, that's one thing. If it's a case of "we want more money out of this nonprofit that needed money itself from a premium cable channel to survive," that's unforgivable. I really want to see both sides of the story here, but all I see is an estate that doesn't understand how mutually important these songs are, and refuses to let a show the songs were written for either have the song licensing rights for a reasonable price or at all. And considering Old School Vol 3, this seems to have been going on for some time.

    On that note, I hate the title of this thread. It implies that this is all HBO's doing, rather than SW's own hand. Certain things have been cut from old Sesame episodes since the first Old School DVD set. Rights are sometimes hard to come by and often switch hands to greedier types who don't care about quality of the clips used if money's involved. Old School 3's lack of the freaking theme song was an embarrassment and a sign that something was going down well before this. It's easy to paint HBO as the villain in all this when all they have over the show is 9 month exclusivity.
     
    MikaelaMuppet and Jared DiCarlo like this.
  14. D'Snowth

    D'Snowth Well-Known Member

    Well, as you know, ARTHUR has a similar problem: notice how we never hear D.W. playing "Crazy Bus" anymore? Because they otherwise would have to pay royalties to Joe Fallon to use it, so rather than do that, they just say D.W. grew out of it.
     
  15. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    Yeah, but Crazy Bus isn't as important to Arthur as..

    the freaking theme song is to Sesame Street.;)
     
    MikaelaMuppet and Pig's Laundry like this.
  16. Pig's Laundry

    Pig's Laundry Well-Known Member

    God, that show is dead.
     
  17. MuppetSpot

    MuppetSpot Well-Known Member

    No Arthur is more like The Simpsons as in a zombie that's taking up airtime.
     
    MikaelaMuppet and DePingPong like this.
  18. Pig's Laundry

    Pig's Laundry Well-Known Member

    Yeah, I know. That's more or less what I was saying .
     
  19. Oscarfan

    Oscarfan Well-Known Member

    Publishers (like "Sesame Street Inc.") only control the commercial usage of songs and ensure the composers are properly compensated.

    I'm not going to assume anything about this; everyone always jumps to conspiracies about these things ("The Workshop banned X segment because it stopped running!" i.e. they phased it out for newer material). I don't know who owns Raposo's estate and I'm not going to call them greedy if these edits are because of them. Because I know absolutely nothing except for the fact that the episodes' edits have a connection between them. That's all I know and I can assume things, but I won't infer anything.
     
  20. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    I'll admit, it is a bit unfair to vilify anyone in this without knowing the full story. Home video rights are always illusive, and multiple parties can come to blame for these kinds of things, and in the end it's easier to just go around them and cut things or redub things.

    Still, if we don't want to paint any estate or rights holder as greedy and or stubborn, I think we can agree that it's at least baffling to think that for whatever reason, things just can't get together between the two if that's the case. I understand that SW and HBO want to release these older episodes at as low a cost as possible. I understand the need for the estate of the artist to get their rightful dues from the songs written. The fact that, if this is indeed the case, a compromise couldn't have been worked out on the basis of "we're financially struggling right now and the songs were written for the show" is the bone of contention for me. IF it's the case.
     


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