to the Muppet Central Forum!
are viewing our forum as a guest. Join
our free community to post topics and start private conversations. Please
contact us if
you need help with registration or your account login.
Muppet Central Radio
Within days Muppet
Central Radio could be off the air. Show your support and save the station
via Radionomy's website and apps. We're also on iTunes and Apple TV. Learn
Discussion in 'Fraggle Rock' started by charlietheowl, Oct 6, 2012.
P.S: I hope episodes of Mopatop's Shop and Construction Site air as a part of CITV'S classic programming. Please DVR/VCR those episodes if they appear, please!!!
To clear up a few misconceptions...
1. The episodes weren't destroyed because there wasn't space to store them; the UK co-producer, TVS, lost its franchise in the early 90s and closed down. Its archive was sold off, and after a few changes in ownership eventually passed to Disney. Unfortunately at some point the paperwork was lost, so there are two problems: noone knows exactly what is on the tapes; and they will be very difficult to clear for DVD release because noone knows who needs to be paid royalties.
It is probable that at least some of the archive was destroyed when TVS closed. I have an eyewitness account of tapes being thrown out, although at this point it isn't known what was on the tapes. Whatever remains was sent to Disney in the US some time last year, but we still don't know what was in there.
2. The Zimbabwe thing is an in-joke on that forum - it comes from a particularly inane story posted in The Sun (for non-UK readers, it's a tabloid paper) which claimed that Robert Mugabe was hoarding lost Doctor Who episodes...! The poster who made the comment was not in any way being serious. The earlier poster who claimed to know where the missing tapes are has not been seen before or since, which pretty much makes him a troll. There is no reason to believe that he knows anything whatsoever.
3. The site with the list of surviving materials is mine The list is accurate to the best of my knowledge, but if anyone does have information - or better still, recordings - not shown there then I would be grateful if you could drop me a line. I'm coordinating the hunt for the lost episodes.
4. The clips from six UK episodes uploaded to Henson's YouTube channel this summer most probably come from a set of tapes held at The Paley Center in New York. These tapes are Betamax (and hence not broadcast-quality), and are NTSC conversions of the shows, not the PAL originals. It isn't known where the recordings came from. The reason we think the YouTube clips come from those tapes (and not from some other source) is that firstly the YT clips are NTSC; and secondly the only six episodes held by The Paley Center are the same six that Henson uploaded. PAL copies of all six exist, so these tapes are of no interest.
5. There is no such thing as 'grainy VHS'. Grain is a film artefact and has nothing to do with videotape. Of the 57 episodes confirmed as existing, 29 are broadcast-quality (12 as released on DVD, 17 at the BFI), 12 are commercial VHS releases from the 80s and the remainder are off-air VHS recordings.
6. With the exception of the 12 DVD-released episodes, which Henson have, and the six at The Paley Center, there is no reason to suppose that the episodes ever left the UK. The show was a UK-specific production; other countries either had their own (France, Germany) or took the US show. It is therefore vanishingly unlikely that any of the tapes will turn up outside the UK.
7. ITV are scheduled to air an as yet unidentified episode of Fraggle Rock on Sunday 6th January. We do not know whether this will be a UK episode or a US one.
Thanks for the understandings, Anathema. I have a question. When the UK episodes of Fraggle Rock are in NTSC format, does that mean the pitch is lowered a bit?
hey guys they have released the schedule for Citv old skool weekend and guess what Fraggle Rock is on both the days this is great news i hope they are the british verisons but either way woooooo hoooooooooooooo
Where did you get this info from?
i first saw on facebook cause a sooty fanpage announced i would classic programming a first but now looking their are thousand of forums abut heres a bit information about it and it looks like ITV have confirmed it
It's just stuck me that CITV should be 50yrs? CITV celebrated it's 40th anniversary in 1995! with "SIMPLY THE BEST CITV", I remember shows with special intros was made with different TV characters including Kermit using this footage..... very confusing!
thats true have we went back in time to its 30th oh goodness whats happened
No, that only applies to film. Videotape doesn't change when converted.
Full schedule here: http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showthread.php?t=1770631&page=4
1983 episodes, can we narrow it down? Is that first series - I'd love it be BEGINNINGS!
Turns out it will be a US episode since its dated from 1983 and uk never started until 1984.
Are you sure about the TAPES being sent to the USA? I'm still lead to believe No tapes have been sent to the USA, from TVS England. Disney has a office in the UK and there is an Archive warehouse in Kent, UK. I have been told there do know what on most of the tapes, ( I did not say there have all TVS tapes, and people are still/were grabbing things out of skips) are you sure your not on about the Non English archive? its would be utter waste of money send tape around the world to do nothing, espeical since the BFI would take great note into it
No one has been able to explain the paperwork, Since Jim Henson has legal right to these tapes, most of the content was from them. Disney is also invold in FR and also controls TVS archive there really should not be any issues.
Paperwork is still bizarre since it only changed hands three,
1993 to Family channel
1998 to brought up by Fox
2001 to Disney
Only reason there want TVS was for the MTM archive, No other reason for any US company to be sniffing around TVS. interesting point did come up in 1996 when the UK family channel was sold off to Flextech, No one has been able to explain why that Deal has never included English Archive of TVS plc.
Have you notice how the MTM paperwork is all sorted and well looked after?
I was told that the former TVS archive was sent to Disney by ITV some time last year; my source didn't elaborate on this, so it is possible that the tapes were transferred to Disney's UK office, yes.
'TVS England' does not exist. TVS closed down in the early 90s. There is a company using the TVS name today, but there is no relation to the former ITV franchise-holder.
The paperwork has simply been lost during one of the periodic moves of the tapes. At various times the tapes have been at Maidstone (TVS' former home) and in Leeds. It's probable that they were in fact split between the sites. The problem isn't the ownership of the physical tapes, or of the programme content - that clearly belongs to Henson and (presumably) Disney. The problem is that any freelancers who worked on the UK segments (writers, actors, puppeteers, etc) would need to be paid for commercial exploitation, and unless everyone can be identified then the show could get stuck in limbo. The same will apply to any music used that wasn't supplied by Henson - it all has to be cleared and paid for.
Do you know for certain that it is US episodes that will be shown? Whilst it's true that the show didn't air in the UK until 1984, the UK segments for the first 24 episodes were taped in the summer of 1983. From a production point-of-view, that makes them "1983 episodes".
SO ITV did have some fingers in this pie, there always denied any knowledge of its, and leeds has away been mentioned but Leeds only ever dealt with Yorkshire TV and from around 2003 ITV northern station archive. The Disney office is on London, with the warehouse in Kent, im still not sure why Leeds would have had the tapes. it rather confusing, also the tapes have been down in Kent for some time, so tape may have never moved in years but ITV just handed over control of looking after them to Disney,
It would not be that hard to found out who worked on the UK version, many of the people are still connected to Maidstone studios, or Freelances, and still on the south coast, but some have no pass on.
What I mean with "TVS England" was in 1989 once MTM was brought some the company was renamed thus: TVS television, stupid I know, for the ITV liecenes, I just use TVS England for the archive of British content, there were also TVS films and TVS Entertainment for US stuff I beleive: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=PvNGBEI1SZ4#t=45s
Of course it was sold on 1 February 1993 to Family channel.
It does seem to be US episode because there have the air date correct for everything else on that list, and it FR started in 84 in the UK, I WOULD LOVE TO BE WRONG!!!
I'll know which episodes tomorrow!
It should also be pointed out all of the 1st is missing .....
in some unrelated topic i decided to see if there was any eps of the uk version on youtube and there is i don't if any has said this yet the eps are marooned and the bells of fraggle rock this is getting exciting
There is something rather strange, If the paper work is missing how on earth did UK FR episodes get put on DVD?
No it isn't Of the 24 episodes which made up the first series, 12 are known to exist, albeit only one in broadcast-quality ('Capture the Moon', released on DVD).
Separate names with a comma.