Interesting Gulf War News

[wolfy]

Originally posted by fozzie Honestly, I'm unsure if he did or not. I hope so, otherwise it's life imprisonment or death.

I know I said I wouldn't post again here, but I do have to comment about this particular bit...

Has anyone thought that, being in the Middle East, he may have had his hands cut off? Not only would that stop him from drawing cartoons ever again, but it would be a message of "deterrent" from the government in his country to other political cartoonists to not do what he has done...

This is the kind of thing that our soldiers are hoping to end by defeating people like Hussian...although I don't know if they would be in time for this man...
wolfy

 

[Fozzie Bear]

Actually, while we were having the art show, I had 2 email contacts with him.

I had forgot about that until now. I'll have to remind myself (good luck to me) to try to email him again to see how he is.

IF he 'is.' Get my drift?

 

[Cantus Rock]

Originally posted by Fozzie Bear
IF he 'is.' Get my drift?

Unfortunately, yes.

-Matt

 

[Fozzie Bear]

Until right now I had forgotten to email him. Maybe I'll remember tonight.

MAYBE!


We all know how well my...um...how well it works...that, thing in your head. You know, the noodles-looking thing you think with.

Oh, yeah:

Bangs

 

[Patty]

Let me just say right off the top: this is THE VERY LAST thread I wanted to post in. I lurk at MC more than post, but the topic unanimously brings out the worst in just about everyone, and that's not very muppety.

However, you're talking about a cartoonist who was thrown in jail in another country. While this man was incarcerated because of a political cartoon, I think someone needs to say that the US occasionally tosses cartoonists in jail, too. So I'll step up to the plate.

It wasn't even ten years ago that Mike Diana was thrown in jail in Florida on obscenity charges related to his comix. I've seen the artwork and I even met him at an art show once ... the work is unpleasant, that's for certain. Likewise, more than one person viewed his art as a form of personal catharsis.

Whatever the case, he was jailed, fined, forbidden to draw (!?!) for some nutty span of time, and forced into psychological therapy at his expense.

If there wasn't a need for it, The Comic Book Legal Defense Fund wouldn't exist. And they're busier than you'd think.

I don't want to draw a direct comparison between the Egyptian and Mike Diana; that would be akin to comparing lower US wages for women vs. ... the Taliban's view of women. Still, let he who is without sin cast the first stone. The US throws artists in jail, too, from time to time.

 

[Fozzie Bear]

Didn't know about that guy. Their main case back then was Essam Hanafy, which is how I knew about him. As far as the guy in Florida, for throwing him in jail for his freedom of speech is a direct violation of the Bill of Rights and, regardless which portion of the Florida State Government decided to prosecute, there's definitely a problem there.

What did he do? A Hustler-type comic in a local newspaper or something? I could see where that might raise some problems, but not JAIL.

It is preposterous that such a thing should happen, and I'm sure the Legal Defense folks are on top of it.

Our contact with them was through a guy named Bro, and he suggested Essam's case to us to benefit. However, had we known up front that one of our own home folks was going through that, I'm sure the beneficiary of our proceed percentage would have been staying here at home.

 

[Patty]

The Mike Diana case was sheer insanity. He drew these kind of scribbly comix and photocopied them a la zine/ashcan. The only place carrying the comix was a local store in his Floridian hometown.

We're talking about a zine that *maybe* sold fifty copies per issue. A hundred tops.

The comix themselves showed ... like kids being assaulted and dismembered by giant praying mantis.' The stuff was pretty harsh ... very violent. But honestly, not without merit or artistic value. It's hard to explain ... Peter Kuper once wrote that the more you looked at the comix, the more interesting the art was, even though it might strike you as amateurish at first. Diana was really young at the time, but he's actually a pretty decent underground-type artist now.

Regardless, someone saw the zine in a comic book store and gave it to the local authorities, who tossed Diana in jail. The court case dragged on for several years ... in the end he was found guilty of obscenity. Because obscenity falls under State law, not Federal law. And because the guy didn't have the resources to fight the case on a national level.

That's one guy within ten years.

If you go back to the 50's, you've got the whole EC Comics debacle, and that was even more insane.

Cartoonists have a history of getting into hot water no matter where they live.

 

[frogboy4]

Please list a link where we can research the details of the case (dates, parties involved, location etc). Thanks.

 

[Fozzie Bear]

Originally posted by Patty
Cartoonists have a history of getting into hot water no matter where they live.

Especially at bath time.

That's why I chose Charles Schulz as my iconographic hero of cartooning and try to eminate him.

wait, is eminate the right word? hmm...

Anyways, regardless, as long as he wasn't being pornographic with his art of children, then there shouldn't be any other problem with what he did.

The use of children in pornography, even in art, is illegal. Having them being eaten by giant bugs is not illegal, not based on some of the things Hollywood has done with kids.

Also, there's the question of things in his personal life that may not have publicly surfaced that the authorities know about? Maybe not.

Sounds like it's a clear-cut case of those idiot censorship folks who feel it's a necessity to shut down anything that doesn't directly reflect their own beliefs, the way Tipper Gore thinks, you know? I hate censorship and say, "Turn the channel, or don't read this magazine."

The guy didn't deserve to go to jail, unless he's being pornographic while using chilluns.

 

[Patty]

Here's one link:

http://www.cbldf.org/casefiles/diana.shtml

And allow me to correct myself -- it did go to the Supreme Court ... apparently in 1997, which not coincidentally, is when I stopped working in comic books.

I'm not going to post this other link because it's not suitable for this forum, but if you do a google search on "mike diana, boiled angel, court case," it's the second link.

In 1994, underground cartoonist Mike Diana was thrown in jail for 4 days without bail on obscenity charges, for publishing, advertising, and selling his zine BOILED ANGEL. Mike was on probation for 3 years, terms of which included fines of $3000, no contact with children under 18 (or within 10 feet of a minor), 1280 hours of community service, maintain full time employment, and at his expense, see a psychiatrist and take journalism courses at his own expense; AND no drawing for his own personal use... his home was subject to unannounced searches by local police to make sure he was complying. Mike Diana is now serving another 2 years of probation, including $2000 in fines, and the same probationary terms.

On June 4, 1996, a ruling issued by Largo, Florida, Circuit Judge Douglas Baird declared Mike Diana's zines, Boiled Angel #7 and #ATE as obscene. The judge emphasized throughout Mike's ruling that he personally found Diana's comics "patently offensive." Referring to Diana as "the appellant," and stated, "The evident goal of the appellant's publication is to portray shocking and graphic pictures of sexual conduct so it will be noticed. If the message is about victimization and that horrible things are happening in our society, as the appellant alleges, the appellant SHOULD HAVE created a vehicle to send his message that was not obscene."