Muppet Listings 15.0

[The Count]

See, now that's why I was waiting for your reply MD.

To clarify about the Storyteller and other second halves of JHH.
1 The Storyteller himself and his dog, who I presume to be voiced by Brian Henson, are already listed so why not everyone else from those stories?
2 You could also probably see that if the Storyteller's Dog is listed, then Dog or Doug the Dinosaur should be too since it was a similar-sounding voice for both.
3 If the Ultra-Gorgon's listed, then it makes sense that the other characters from his story be included too.
4 The main reason to include all of these... the Storyteller and other stories were meant to serve as the second halves of JHH. In other words, JHH is made up equally of both the Muppet episodes and the stories presented as the second half of the overall JHH episode. If only the Muppet portions of the episode were to be counted, then you'd only have half a show and thus the stories should be included to make up both the whole show and a completist JHH listing/inclusion in the overall list.
Hope this helps explain things. There are a few of these that I'll have to go over again and find, probably on Friday my next free day. Also have to check some miscellaneous entries I got from Jedi_X's site and see where they appeared there to see if I've already asked about them or if I need to ask again.
Hope to hear from you guys soon, and have a great day.

 

[muppet_dk]

Let me see if I understand this. You want to list the storyteller segments because they where used as the second half of the show. Does that mean that the storyteller episodeds that was not used on JHH would not be listed.

If you want to list the regular storyteller episodes, then what about the storyteller: Greek Myths, are you wanting them on your list too ?

 

[The Count]

Ah, you guys know how to ask good questions, I'll give you that. Well, I'm trying to track down a copy of Storyteller: Greek Myths as a gift for my college myth professor. Would have to ask if John Hurt was still the Storyteller for those stories. Then again, maybe those would need to be set apart under the Storyteller label proper, and then the stuff from the series. Cause I know that if I allow the characters from the Storyteller from JHH and the Greek myths, the next thing you guys will ask is about the stuff from the TV series. So let's just take it one step at a time, let's get everything from JHH I've posted above squared away first. After that's done, then we can talk about the Greek Myths and the TV series.
Hope this helpps answer your questions.

 

[MuppetDude]

To clarify about the Storyteller and other second halves of JHH.

1 The Storyteller himself and his dog, who I presume to be voiced by Brian Henson, are already listed so why not everyone else from those stories?

2 You could also probably see that if the Storyteller's Dog is listed, then Dog the Dinosaur should be too since it was a similar-sounding voice for both.

3 If the Ultra-Gorgon's listed, then it makes sense that the other characters from his story be included too.

4 JHH is made up equally of both the Muppet episodes and the stories presented as the second half of the overall JHH episode. If only the Muppet portions of the episode were to be counted, then you'd only have half a show and thus the stories should be included to make up both the whole show and a completist JHH listing/inclusion in the overall list.

1) I can see why the Ultragorgon, the Storyteller's Dog, and Dog are counted (since they interact with other Muppets [Jo-Jo] on the show, namely the "Secrets of the Muppets" episode), but that's the problem; they're the only ones who interacted with them. Jim talks about them, but never refers to them as "Muppet productions".

2) I'm not sure I understand why similar-sounding voices have to do with different characters.

4) True, but the other half of the series can be counted as a separate television show, even though they were aired as a part of JHH. All of them were collectively released on a DVD box set.

This part of the list is really confusing me.

 

[The Count]

OK then, let's just go by Point 4 which lays down the strongest argument anyway. Though the Storyteller was released on its own as a collected DVD, I'm not sure what was entirely on that DVD release since I don't own a copy. But still, would the DVD have been released if JHH were a solid Muppet hourlong program or if the Storyteller didn't exist and JHH were just a half-hour long Muppet show? No, the fact is that the Storyteller and the other stories like Lighthouse Island and Song of the Cloud Forest are part of JHH and considered as part of the overall show itself. More so Monster Maker and Living with Dinosaurs which are JHH episodes in their own right taking up the whole hour. To tell the truth, I thought there was more to Living with Dinosaurs from what I thought I remembered from when I watched it on Nickelodeon.

BTW: Though Monster Maker is supposed to take place in England, the notes played to open up the Ultra-Gorgon's chamber are the first few notes of Stars & Stripes, the US national anthem.
Well, if the above thoughts don't help convince you, what do you propose MuppetDude?

 

[illgaz]

please help me... on your list you ahve the rubber band men (2737) and i am looking for a place to down load the skit they sang the "phen na ma nop doo doo doodoo" song can you help me??

my kids dont believe me about the song it was hilarious any direction you could point me i would be appreciated

thank you

 

[The Count]

Heh, another wayward soul. First off, welcome to MC Illgaz. Secondly, there seems to be some confusion in your request. The Rubber Band Men, to my knowledge, never sang back up for Mahna Mahna on his self-named song. The Snowths were the ones who sang back up for Mahna Mahna for the song "Mahna Mahna", found on the Juliette Prowst TMS episode. The Rubber Band Men appeared playing the instrumental accompanyment for Linda Carter when she sang the song "Rubber Band Men" on her own TMS episode. Both of these TMMS episodes can be found on differeent volumes of the Time-Life series of The Best of the Muppet Show DVD's.
Hope this helps and have a good night.

 

[The Count]

OK, getting back to the unfinished business at hand concerning JHH.

Let's take Jedi_X's site as an example, since he's the one who's specialized himself on the subject of JHH.
Say he wanted to mae a character list of all the Muppet characters that appeared throughout the whole of JHH. Leaving the SS 20th Anniversary special aside, he starts work with the remaining 12 episodes wanting his list to be 100% "both" Muppet-complete and JHH-complete.
Well, there's the first problem.
8 of the 12 episodes have Muppet half-hours as the first portion of the episodes themselves.
2 more episodes, Dog City and Secrets of the Muppets, have characters that can and are added as Muppets.
But Monster Maker and Living with Dinosaurs get completely ommitted.
So the list isn't complete because the focus was on it being both Muppet-complete and JHH-complete at the same time.

However, Jedi_X has actually included characters from the Song of the Cloud Forest in his list.
And there's the second problem. By adding characters from the Song of the Cloud Forest, he's no longer limiting himself to the Muppet characters that appeared during the first half of the show. Any Muppet characters he's already gotten come from the first half titled Health & Fitness. So now the list starts to cross over into second half-hour territory.

So, with the inclusion of only Song of the Cloud Forest, the focus has shifted to make this list 100% JHH-complete only.
And there's the third problem. Because this list will not be 100% JHH-complete if it only lists:
the Muppet characters from the Muppet half-hour portions of the 8 episodes with Muppet half-hour first half portions,
Muppet characters from Dog City and Secrets of the Muppets, and
Muppet characters from The Song of the Cloud Forest, which is the second half portion of one of the JHH episodes with a Muppet half-hour first half portion.
No, in order to have a JHH-complete character list that's truly complete you need the characters from Lighthouse Island and the five Storyteller stories.
So I trust this helps settle any confusion over including those segments to have a truly complete JHH-character list and entries added to the overall Muppet Listing.
After all if not for the completeness factor, this list would be nowhere near the greatness it has achieved with help from readers like you.

Hope this helps and have a good night.

 

[The Count]

Update. Changed Donnizetti to Ferlenghetti and he's now in the F's. Due to MuppetDude's explanation, the Dolphins have been changed to the Sea Creatures and the Orange Fish will remain as a separate entry. Added the characters from the SS game show TSF provided, and we're up to 3116. Will start work on adding the characters from JHH. Will probably have to rewatch the episodes to find some characters I still have doubts on, and will ask for descripts of characters already listed to make a good complete list to submit to Jedi_X so he can have the correct info on his site too.
Hope to hear from you guys soon on the stuff from the Storyteller and have a good day.

 

[MuppetDude]

Let's take Jedi_X's site as an example, since he's the one who's specialized himself on the subject of JHH.
Say he wanted to mae a character list of all the Muppet characters that appeared throughout the whole of JHH. Leaving the SS 20th Anniversary special aside, he starts work with the remaining 12 episodes wanting his list to be 100% "both" Muppet-complete and JHH-complete.
Well, there's the first problem.
8 of the 12 episodes have Muppet half-hours as the first portion of the episodes themselves.
2 more episodes, Dog City and Secrets of the Muppets, have characters that can and are added as Muppets.
But Monster Maker and Living with Dinosaurs get completely ommitted.
So the list isn't complete because the focus was on it being both Muppet-complete and JHH-complete at the same time.

However, Jedi_X has actually included characters from the Song of the Cloud Forest in his list.
And there's the second problem. By adding characters from the Song of the Cloud Forest, he's no longer limiting himself to the Muppet characters that appeared during the first half of the show. Any Muppet characters he's already gotten come from the first half titled Health & Fitness. So now the list starts to cross over into second half-hour territory.

So, with the inclusion of only Song of the Cloud Forest, the focus has shifted to make this list 100% JHH-complete only.
And there's the third problem. Because this list will not be 100% JHH-complete if it only lists:
the Muppet characters from the Muppet half-hour portions of the 8 episodes with Muppet half-hour first half portions,
Muppet characters from Dog City and Secrets of the Muppets, and
Muppet characters from The Song of the Cloud Forest, which is the second half portion of one of the JHH episodes with a Muppet half-hour first half portion.
No, in order to have a JHH-complete character list that's truly complete you need the characters from Lighthouse Island and the five Storyteller stories.
So I trust this helps settle any confusion over including those segments to have a truly complete JHH-character list and entries added to the overall Muppet Listing.
After all if not for the completeness factor, this list would be nowhere near the greatness it has achieved with help from readers like you.

You've convinced me. Though the Storyteller can be made into another show on its own (and the DVD release was the entire collection, including JHH pieces), the argument of having a complete list of the show's characters won my vote.

But what about the other Storyteller episodes? Would they be counted since the JHH Storyteller episodes even though they were aired as a separate series?