New Muppet movie in development for potential 2013 release

[Oscarfan]

I really have no idea why the Jim henson company would sell the rights to the muppets in the first place. They may not have the financial abilities to pump out a new crappy muppet film every five minutes like Disney can, but they can take their time and make a quality muppet movie that people would like.

Muppets from Space. 'Nuff Said

(though technically not fair an argument, as I don't find it that bad and suffered a lot of Executive Meddling, but it's normall found at the bottom of most people's lists)

 

[jvcarroll]

Disney basically killed the muppets slowly. They shouldn't be trying this hard with them. They should stop trying to make everything all kiddie and stick to the classic muppet humor that made the so famous to begin with. And seriously all these new characters feel like they were rushed too. If you're going to make a new character make sure it's something everyone will enjoy. I really have no idea why the Jim henson company would sell the rights to the muppets in the first place. They may not have the financial abilities to pump out a new crappy muppet film every five minutes like Disney can, but they can take their time and make a quality muppet movie that people would like.

I'm sorry, but there's more ambiguous griping than substance to this statement.

• What project is trying too hard exactly?
• What parts are too kiddie?
• What "all these new characters" are you talking about?
• You do know that Jim really wanted to sell to Disney, right?
• You also know that Henson Company was responsible for the much rushed/critiqued Muppets From Space and painfully kiddified Kermit's Swamp Years, right?
• You do know that Disney launched the first financially successful and critically acclaimed theatrical film in two decades, right?
• You do know that Disney brought back Mahna Mahna & the Snowths, Thog, Uncle Deadly, Luncheon Counter Monster, Annie Sue Pig and put Scooter, Rowlf and the Electric Mayhem back into starring roles, right?
• You do know that it was Disney that finally brought substantive Muppet web content to fruition, right?
• You do know that it was Disney who first begun to release season sets of The Muppet Show, right?

I respect that personal tastes may differ, but the blanket statements made in the cited post don't match the reality of Disney's Muppet franchise. I admit that things could be better. I just don't understand the criticism.

 

[WillyThePig]

I'm sorry, but there's more ambiguous griping than substance to this statement.

• What project is trying too hard exactly?
• What parts are too kiddie?
• What "all these new characters" are you talking about?
• You do know that Jim really wanted to sell to Disney, right?
• You also know that Henson Company was responsible for the much rushed/critiqued Muppets From Space and painfully kiddified Kermit's Swamp Years, right?
• You do know that Disney launched the first financially successful and critically acclaimed theatrical film in two decades, right?
• You do know that Disney brought back Mahna Mahna & the Snowths, Thog, Uncle Deadly, Luncheon Counter Monster, Annie Sue Pig and put Scooter, Rowlf and the Electric Mayhem back into starring roles, right?
• You do know that it was Disney that finally brought substantive Muppet web content to fruition, right?
• You do know that it was Disney who first begun to release season sets of The Muppet Show, right?

I respect that personal tastes may differ, but the blanket statements made in the cited post don't match the reality of Disney's Muppet franchise. I admit that things could be better. I just don't understand the criticism.

I know what you mean and you are correct but I'm saying that the muppets have lost their charm. if you go back and look at some of the classic muppet stuff, they are funny without sacrificing story...sorry Jason segal. I understand that Disney is doing things with the muppets but I have a feeling that things would be different if Jim were still around. And what I meant by kiddie is that the muppets Didn't originally start as a family/children's show. They are trying too hard now to make it more family friendly and they have very simple stupid humor. I love the muppets but I don't like the way Directiom Disney is taking them in. Disney was great when Walt was around but after he died Disney started producing lower quality stuff and now were left with nothing of his memory but the cheesy sitcoms and classic cartoon remixed to crappy music on the Disney channel. They are making the muppets part of this huge blob of crap that Disney is producing. Don't mean to make anyone upset if you're Disney fans.

 

[jvcarroll]

I know what you mean and you are correct but I'm saying that the muppets have lost their charm. if you go back and look at some of the classic muppet stuff, they are funny without sacrificing story...sorry Jason segal. I understand that Disney is doing things with the muppets but I have a feeling that things would be different if Jim were still around. And what I meant by kiddie is that the muppets Didn't originally start as a family/children's show. They are trying too hard now to make it more family friendly and they have very simple stupid humor. I love the muppets but I don't like the way Directiom Disney is taking them in. Disney was great when Walt was around but after he died Disney started producing lower quality stuff and now were left with nothing of his memory but the cheesy sitcoms and classic cartoon remixed to crappy music on the Disney channel. They are making the muppets part of this huge blob of crap that Disney is producing. Don't mean to make anyone upset if you're Disney fans.

I understand that to an extent, but what you're talking about started happening a long time before Disney ownership. In fact, some of that began occurring while Jim Henson was still alive with the children's cartoon Muppet Babies and the videos aimed at toddlers such as Hey, You're as Funny as Fozzie Bear. Even if you let those slide, you're blaming Disney for something that the Jim Henson Company started doing in films like Muppets From Space and Kermit's Swamp Years. Those sink to such depths that Disney would never have greenlit.I appreciate that you may not have liked the 2011 film, but that's just one project in a long history that you don't seem to be aware of.

Also, Walt Disney died in 1966! The Jungle Book, Pooh. Who Framed Roger Rabbit, the famous Disney renaissance that included The Little Mermaid, Aladdin, Beauty and the Beast and The Lion King and so many other projects of amazing quality occurred after his death. So, saying the quality declined since his death is 100% inaccurate. You seem to have a simplified history of things that doesn't quite line up with reality.

 

[CensoredAlso]

I will say I was surprised recently to see that the 90s disney movies don't quite hold up for me. The music is still beautiful but my friend and I found ourselves fast forwarding through everything else. They were kids movies, period. And i got tired of the girl who wants more stuff even as a kid. But I can still watch the 30s 40s and 50s era Disney films and really enjoy myself. They have remained timeless. ::shrugs:: Some of it is personal taste but it is true that franchises have their prime that eventually ends.

Like I said I enjoyed The Muppets (2011) and I could see they were really trying. But I did not feel taken back to Muppet Show or anything. But I don't mind if fans disagree it does make things more interesting, lol.

 

[jvcarroll]

I will say I was surprised recently to see that the 90s disney movies don't quite hold up for me. The music is still beautiful but my friend and I found ourselves fast forwarding through everything else. They were kids movies, period. And i got tired of the girl who wants more stuff even as a kid. But I can still watch the 30s 40s and 50s era Disney films and really enjoy myself. They have remained timeless. ::shrugs:: Some of it is personal taste but it is true that franchises have their prime that eventually ends.

Like I said I enjoyed The Muppets (2011) and I could see they were really trying. But I did not feel taken back to Muppet Show or anything. But I don't mind if fans disagree it does make things more interesting, lol.

I agree that it's about primarily about personal taste. Films reflect the eras in which they are created. Whether it's the 90's or 10's, it is our times that you seem to object to the most in your assessment. The films are just a symptom of that. For some reason, pre-50's America takes on a timeless quality for you. I think Beauty and the Beast and the Lion King hold up just fine. Both films are relatively timeless in my book. I very much enjoy Classics like Snow White too, but they certainly aren't any more timeless than the modern classics. Snow White is a very much the model for a demure young woman in the 1930's. For some reason, this means less to you than an Ariel or Belle representing the young women the 90's. There's more personal taste than fact in what you've stated and that's perfectly okay.

As for the Muppets, the great wit of the Muppet Show and their three films began to dull a little bit before Jim Henson's death. That's the truth of the matter. I loved the Jim Henson Hour, but the Muppet Central portions of the program did not have quite the sharpness and relevance of the classic Muppets.

 

[Drtooth]

I understand that to an extent, but what you're talking about started happening a long time before Disney ownership. In fact, some of that began occurring while Jim Henson was still alive with the children's cartoon Muppet Babies and the videos aimed at toddlers such as Hey, You're as Funny as Fozzie Bear. Even if you let those slide, you're blaming Disney for something that the Jim Henson Company started doing in films like Muppets From Space and Kermit's Swamp Years. Those sink to such depths that Disney would never have greenlit.I appreciate that you may not have liked the 2011 film, but that's just one project in a long history that you don't seem to be aware of.

Quoted for truth.

I, for one, am sick of rationalizing all the things wrong with Henson that make Disney a competent parent company for The Muppets, and I'm also sick of saying Muppets From Space and Muppet Wizard of Oz. I'm also tired of explaining that things that are in the show aren't there in the movies, and never were. It's always the same argument and some Debbie Downer's always going to whine about how a franchise isn't exactly the same as it was forever, and that somehow it should be frozen in time. Nothing maintains the same level of quality throughout, and things always change. Simpsons, SNL, Star Wars, Looney Tunes... people leave, people die, you have different people running things, writing things... things are going to be different no matter what. Even if the same people are in charge. You can't flash freeze a franchise at its peak. The best you can do is get as close to it as possible, missing some intangible nuance that only the original creators, writers, and actors can provide.

Either we can realize that there's going to a slight difference and role with it, or we can watch the old dusty videos again and become increasingly irrelevant when we talk about them outside of a nostalgic fan base. Oh, and if they don't make new projects, there's no reason to put anything on a modern home video, so ...yeah... dusty old VHS tapes that are rapidly disintegrating. Say what you will, Jim didn't want his projects to languish in relative obscurity due to cultural irrelevance. Look at Mighty Mouse. Last time he had anything it was a 1980's cartoon series. When was the last time you heard anyone talk about Mighty Mouse that didn't include the words "childhood" or "remember?" NO ONE wants that to be the Muppets. New projects are a necessary evil to keep the classic stuff and merchandise flowing.

 

[CensoredAlso]

I think Beauty and the Beast and the Lion King hold up just fine. Both films are relatively timeless in my book.

I think if you showed them to a young audience today, yes they would be timeless, absolutely. I just found that they didn't grow up with me. We are puzzle pieces that don't fit anymore if that makes sense, lol. If they still fit other people, that's great. Again, the music is still wonderful, if anything I appreciate that even more now than I did then.

I very much enjoy Classics like Snow White too, but they certainly aren't any more timeless than the modern classics. Snow White is a very much the model for a demure young woman in the 1930's. For some reason, this means less to you than an Ariel or Belle representing the young women the 90's.

See, hmm, thing is I don't mind the way women were portrayed in early Disney films. I don't see them as weak or passive. The whole point of Snow White, Cinderella and even Sword in the Stone and Pinnochio is that these are characters that are abused and bullied by society. And yet they remain good, kind people. They never lose hope that things can get better. That is something I can identify with in my own life and what most people can identify with.

The heroes of the '90s films just come across like upper middle class kids who are bored with suburban life and yearn for more. Ariel and Jasmine are princesses and Simba is a prince, I can't identify with them or feel sorry for them. Belle, yeah they think she's weird, but all the men in the movie think she's gorgeous. Again, no sympathy, lol. Like Nostalgia Critic once said, characters like this can come off like spoiled brats. The only modern Disney heroine that I can still relate to is Mulan because she truly was dealing with a difficult existence, being a woman and living in oppression.

I think it's really a sign of how society changed. Like was harder for the general public in the 30's and 40's (and people remembered this in the '50s), they needed hope to get through life and the dream that things could get better. In the late '80s and '90s, more yuppie, "30-something" problems came into vogue and that comes across as petty by comparison. Plus they were trying so hard to make the women liberated that it often seemed forced. That's why the Animaniacs started making fun of Disney and "just the same old heroine."

 

[Drtooth]

I still don't subscribe to the term "timeless." As hard as you may try, everything ever made is the product of it's era. You'll see stars of the day in those roles, and the occasional reference to something. Things shouldn't be timeless because that takes away their historical perspective. I'm pretty sure kids know that Snow White is an old movie (they make no mistake to say it's an old classic from the 30's... it wouldn't have retained that groundbreaking status if you didn't know), and Aladdin is a realtively newer one, just by the looks themselves. There ARE different levels of dated, but Aladdin sticks out the most, due to Robin William's at the moment references (much as I love them).

We know which Disney movie I hate, let's not dwell on it. The ones I like the best are ones that don't deal with Princesses (Jungle Book, Pinocchio, Lion King, Emperor's New Groove, Wreck it Ralph even).

 

[CensoredAlso]

I still don't subscribe to the term "timeless." As hard as you may try, everything ever made is the product of it's era. You'll see stars of the day in those roles, and the occasional reference to something. Things shouldn't be timeless because that takes away their historical perspective.

It can be both. You can have dated elements and still have a timeless story. The theme of the bullied hero/heroine is timeless. But the whole "I'm a strong woman and I need more!" does instantly make me think "Ah yes, this was following the feminist movement." It was your basic trying too hard to be relevant and even as a kid I saw through it.