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Sesame Workshop Trying To Have It Both Ways(Bert/Ernie issue)

Discussion in 'Sesame Street' started by beaker, Nov 1, 2011.

  1. heralde

    heralde Well-Known Member

    They already have for 40 years, lol.
  2. Muppet fan 123

    Muppet fan 123 Well-Known Member

    Really? I thought they sleep in the same bed these days
  3. heralde

    heralde Well-Known Member

    Not as far as I know.
  4. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member


    They never did. Otherwise Bert would be a LOT angrier if Ernie at cookies in the bed.
  5. LamangoNumber2

    LamangoNumber2 Active Member

    "Gordon, Bert won't talk to me anymore... I think it's because I left Crumbs in his bed."
    Gordon reaction face.
  6. fragglerockr

    fragglerockr Member

    D'Snowth,

    I'm not trying to start an argument but offering insight. I'm not sure where you live but I've lived in and around Atlanta for all my life. That's pretty much deep south. I have never heard anyone use the term "Mammy" when describing their female parental unit. I would argue that term might have been thrown around long ago but would be considered offensive to most people currently.

    Fragglerockr
    heralde likes this.
  7. GonzoLeaper

    GonzoLeaper Well-Known Member

    Sesame Workshop has made their stance clear. (repeatedly). I don't know about the T-shirts and merchandising- I'm not sure if all of those are actually licensed by Sesame Street in any case. If so, then as others have said, it's probably Sesame Workshop giving the sly wink...
    But yes- people are going to interpret Ernie and Bert's relationship as they choose to, regardless of what the official statement might be.
    Of course, considering the age range of most viewers of the show (at least the ones that it's aimed at), I really don't think any sexuality is appropriate at that age level. (At least not into the specifics of course. I realize we've already had Gordon and Susan adopting Miles and Maria and Luis getting married and then Maria giving birth to Gabi- but obviously on a simplified level.) If we're educating kids for kindergarten and elementary school, let's stick with numbers and letters and save the sex ed. class for middle school.
  8. heralde

    heralde Well-Known Member

    But I don't think mentioning that there are same sex couples is that different from explaining why Maria and Luis were getting married. That's not really discussing sexuality, but rather relationships.
  9. GonzoLeaper

    GonzoLeaper Well-Known Member

    True- and I can see how that would be a rationale for that. I think Sesame Workshop acknowledges that it's still a controversial issue for many and thus has steered away from it. I will say for myself, I would rather not see it on the show as The Bible says homosexuality is a sin and I would not like to see that presented to children (or anyone) as a good relationship.
    (Sorry to anyone who feels differently- I don't mean to be offensive, but those are my moral convictions from my faith in Christ.)
    Actually, the topic has been broached to a small degree before anyway - if anyone recalls one of my favorite songs on the show- "We All Sing With the Same Voice"- one of the lines mentions that someone has one daddy, where someone else has two...
    I don't think kids would even catch that as I didn't even catch that until hearing it again years later from first seeing it as a kid in the '80s.
    I doubt homosexuality would be presented on the show as something that some people choose to indulge in, though Christians and Muslims and other religions alike condemn it as being wrong.
    I wonder if it wouldn't be presented as something that some people are born with and that's just the way it is. Here we would have conflicting ideologies and somehow I don't think Sesame Street would get into presenting all those different viewpoints.
    But then Sesame Street (at least not to my knowledge) hasn't talked about people who just live together without being married and have children out of wedlock either. There are a lot of alternate relationships from the one man and one woman for life marriage relationship that could be explored on the show (and some have- like Gina adopting a kid without her having a husband to help raise the kid- a good ideal in giving the kid a better life, but it'd be even better if he was in a home with a Mommy and Daddy)... I just don't know that all of them should be.
  10. GonzoLeaper

    GonzoLeaper Well-Known Member

    By the way, I love your avatar, heralde. Great pic of Ralph there- lol. I love The Greatest American Hero.:)
    heralde likes this.
  11. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    I must stress one more time, this thread isn't because of the either or, but rather the fact SW is making a nod to it in merchandise. They only took a stand on them NOT being a gay couple, and the shirts are nothing more than a snickering aside...

    like I said earlier, even though they have shirts with the Count dressed up in Pimp attire that doesn't mean there's going to be a sketch where he sells women's bodies.
  12. heralde

    heralde Well-Known Member

    Aw thanks! Yeah Ralph's the best, he'll tell you like it is, right? lol ;)

    You're allowed to have an opinion, this is America. ;) I am a Christian too and I personally disagree with your interpretation, but again, that's why our country is great, lol. :)

    I actually think that was probably more about divorce which was more controversial back then.
  13. fragglerockr

    fragglerockr Member

    GonzoLeaper,

    There are so many statements that you made that just make me go, Wow! I disagree with a lot but the above is the one that sticks out the most to me.

    Gay people don't choose to be or "indulge" in being gay anymore than you choose to be straight or I choose to be a white male. I can wake up wanting to be black or hispanic but that doesn't mean I will be. I can paint my face, immerse myself in a different culture, but I'm still white. I am, what I am. Buying a new Muppet CD is an indulgence. Eating chocolate is an indulgence. Taking a nap on a lazy Sunday is an indulgence. One's sexual orientation is not.

    Also, there is no evidence that children of single parents or even same sex couples have a better or inferior life, than those raised by a "Mommy and a Daddy", as you put it.

    I will agree, that since same sex couples are a hot button issue, Seasame Workshop won't be featuring them on 'The Street' anytime soon. They have always been on the forefront of social culture. I do hope that as cultural attitudes shift and change that they too, will consider adding them to the cast. Featuring a same sex cast couple does not equate to teaching children about sexuality any more than showing Luis and Maria as a couple does.

    Fragglerockr
  14. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    I always personally believed that the ONLY reason why Maria and Luis were a couple was because the Maria/David relationship was feared to be promoting an interracial couple.

    Now they did discuss love on multiple occasions... none of which promoted any agenda. The Maria and Luis wedding (and eventual baby birth) was a major event, but it was never touched upon again. Sort of like Mr. Hooper's death. They've been lucky enough not to have to discuss any of that ever again (the Michael Jeter Mr. Noodle character just existed in Elmo's mind, so they didn't need to explain that). There was an episode a few years back where Elmo has a crush on Gina, and Gina explained there are different kinds of love... and that her's was more like a young aunt and her nephew (not so much in those words). No sex. They never ever mentioned that.
  15. heralde

    heralde Well-Known Member

    I know that still bothers me today. That was a shame.
  16. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    Well considering the problems that the actor who portrayed David had, it's all for the best. Funny thing is, Gina and Savion were clearly a couple, but Savion left to do other things... same with Gabby and Miles (who also left for other things).

    Still, I'm surprised NO ONE complained about Marco getting adopted by Gina, a single mother. I guess that's acceptable in society now, but I can't forget when Murphy Brown adopted a baby and Dan Quayle had a hissy fit over it.
  17. heralde

    heralde Well-Known Member

    I thought there was some complaint, no? Maybe it was relatively minor.

    Yeah Dan Quayle was quite funny that way, lol.
  18. heralde

    heralde Well-Known Member

    LOL, brilliant.
  19. D'Snowth

    D'Snowth Well-Known Member

    Well, I live in Tennessee, Knoxville to be exact, and admittedly, Knoxville is like a hundred years behind as opposed to being ahead... but I do mean to say that the term "mammy" hasn't really beenused in a long time, but growing up, I did hear it a lot.
    We mentioned that before, and IIRC, I mentioned my theory was that whoever sang that particular verse may have refered to like maybe a paternal/biologocial father, and a stepfather... t least that's how I always interpreted it.
  20. fragglerockr

    fragglerockr Member

    D'Snowth,

    Wow? That's crazy. I think around here if someone said it they would be shot.

    Fragglerockr


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