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Sesame Workshop Trying To Have It Both Ways(Bert/Ernie issue)

Discussion in 'Sesame Street' started by beaker, Nov 1, 2011.

  1. GonzoLeaper

    GonzoLeaper Well-Known Member

    hey fragglerockr- I know many disagree with my beliefs and I respect your right to do so.
    However, regarding this statement, I do think people choose to be straight. There is a daily struggle between right and wrong for everyone. I certainly have given in to wrong many times...however, I look to Christ for salvation and forgiveness and I trust Him to help me choose to do the right. Naturally, we all do wrong from the sin nature in all of us. That is why we need a Savior- that's why Jesus came- to die on the cross to pay for all of our sins and rise again from the dead to give us salvation. He is The Savior.
    But people have to make a choice regarding God and what they will believe about Him and whether or not they will obey Him. And puberty is the place where boys and girls start making sexual decisions and undergoing sexual changes- and every day of our lives, there is a choice to engage in sexuality the way that God designed or to choose our own path instead. Genesis 2:24 (which Jesus quotes in Matthew 19:4-5) says that "for this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be united to his wife and the two shall become one flesh." The model laid out here is one man and one woman together for life. (As Jesus says after quoting this, "therefore what God has joined together, let no man put asunder.")
    So the choice is whether we will obey what God has said or not.
    I know that some, as heralde said, choose to interpret The Bible's commands on sexuality differently and that is their option. I respectfully disagree.
    Regarding showing the marriage relationship through Maria and Luis' wedding displays the only kind of sexual relationship God intended (as Matthew 19 espouses on). Showing a homosexual relationship on Sesame Street would only teach kids that this is an acceptable alternative- and of course, it largely is by much of society. Again- I mean no hatred or malice toward anyone in this kind of a relationship- (though I recognize the very fact of my stating an opposition to those relationships may well be perceived as such regardless)- but the simplest way to say it is that God says this is wrong.
    Sesame Street and society will do as it will and I recognize that. I am okay with being seen as being "behind the times" or old-fashioned or backwards or ignorant or whatever other label someone may wish to thrust upon me for believing what The Bible says clearly in Romans 1 and many other places. (My favorite is 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 "Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God."
    As the verses say, I am guilty of every single one of those titles and not worthy of the kingdom of God. As James 2:10 says- if you break the Law at any one part of it, you're guilty of breaking all of it. And I acknowledge that I have sinned and am no better than anyone else. (as Romans 3:23 says clearly.) But I have been washed, sanctified and justified in the name of The Lord Jesus Christ and in The Spirit of our God.
    That is a choice that God offers in love to everyone. I offer it in love because He first loved me and as Jesus said, "Freely you have received, freely give."
    I hate the term "anti-homosexual" because I am not anti-homosexual and I don't think Christians in general should be. However, I am anti-homosexuality because God calls that a sin. But God loves everyone and because of Him, so do I.
    Everyone must make their own choice on what they will believe about Jesus and I acknowledge that and respect that. I just want to lovingly and respectfully present His love to others so they can make that choice. If someone has already honestly considered what Christ has to say and has made their choice regarding Him, then that's all I can ask.
    But that is why my position is what it is and I will just have to respectfully disagree with some people on this issue. That doesn't diminish my love and respect for them as a person made in God's image and it doesn't mean we can't enjoy camaraderie as Muppet fans. And no matter what someone believes, I certainly wish only the best for everyone. As Tiny Tim observed, "God bless us, everyone!":)
  2. D'Snowth

    D'Snowth Well-Known Member

    Look GonzoLeaper, I too am a Christian myself, but I honestly don't believe it's a good idea for you to "force" your beliefs and views on a forum such as this, as it usually triggers fights and flames from those who choose not to believe in God, or follow any religion for that matter; believe me, I learned that the hard way, it just causes trouble.
  3. CensoredAlso

    CensoredAlso Well-Known Member

    Let me put it this way. You certainly have the right to think it's wrong (again this is America after all, heh). Now if you're thinking in that context, Jesus ate with and socialized with sinners all the time, even though people complained and said it was wrong. Jesus may not have agreed with the sinners but he didn't say they weren't allowed to be around him. So for that reason, if I was against homosexuality I wouldn't stop them from appearing on a show like Sesame Street.
  4. CensoredAlso

    CensoredAlso Well-Known Member

    You're a Christmas? Is that an offshoot I didn't know about? ;)
  5. GonzoLeaper

    GonzoLeaper Well-Known Member

    True. And I don't have an issue with people who engage in homosexuality- I know people who identify with that position and have worked with some as well. I'd still rather not have openly gay people on Sesame Street for the reason that it presents the message to children that this sin is an acceptable choice.
    I do believe in befriending people of all beliefs and positions in life of course- the only way to be free of all sin would be to be out of this world, as The Bible says. And I'm of course I struggle with plenty of my own each day as well. But just because I accept people where they are doesn't mean I can condone and accept all that they do. Jesus did hang out with all kinds of sinners of course- since we're all sinners- but as he told the woman caught in adultery in John 8- "Neither do I condemn you. Go and sin no more."
    If this was the message being presented regarding homosexuality, then I would agree with that. As I've said before, I seriously doubt that is the message that Sesame Street would present. So it's probably best that they don't address it one way or the other.

    I appreciate your concern and advice, D'Snowth. I don't know why presenting my beliefs in love should necessarily trigger any fight or argument, as that is certainly not my intent. As I said before, I've stated clearly where I stand on these issues and I will have to just respectfully disagree with some people on this.
  6. D'Snowth

    D'Snowth Well-Known Member

    I understand that, it's just the sad truth that there are some people out there who do take issue with people even remotely mentioning God... it really makes little sense though... if they choose not to believe in God, or they feel God is non-existent to them, why should the mention of Him offend them like it's a personal insult to them or something?
  7. CensoredAlso

    CensoredAlso Well-Known Member

    Jesus hanging out with sinners did not mean he was presenting their behavior as acceptable. Just that he wasn't going to shun them. That's what I'm saying.
    GonzoLeaper likes this.
  8. D'Snowth

    D'Snowth Well-Known Member

    Something these gay-bashing uber-conservative Republicans should take a hint from... after all, they all claim they follow God's example and live a Christ-like life, yet they're more judgemental than Simon Cowell.
  9. CensoredAlso

    CensoredAlso Well-Known Member

    Very true, some people want to make over Christ in their own image. ;) (Not referring to anyone here). Either that or they're Republican politicians currently in the closet trying to deflect, lol.
  10. fragglerockr

    fragglerockr Well-Known Member


    Couple of things.

    Do not preach to me or anyone else. This post has zero to due with YOUR personal religious convictions, so I would invite you to keep them to yourself as they are, as you put it, "beliefs", not facts. But since you dragged us all into, here is the an INFORMED flip side of the coin.

    I know full well what the Bible does and does not say about homosexuality. I almost went into seminary to become a minister, so I'm well versed with the texts in the Bible.

    "Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.

    The term "homosexual" in this scripture that you have flagrantly thrown in everyones face is incorrectly translated. Do you speak Greek? The word in the original Greek is: "aresenokoite". It's word that was coined by (who most biblical scholars believe) Paul. It's two different words smashed together. It literally translated means "male" "bed". It is used in other passages in the Bible when referring to the young male prostitutes at the temple of Molech. This was not the accepted Greek term for same sex couples. It is unclear what "Paul's" intention were. He could have been condemning temple prostitutes. He could have been decrying pederasty. Since your not a Bible scholar, nor are you Paul, please don't push your uninformed "opinion" on us. It's the same as putting words into other people's mouths.​

    Also, don't quote Levitical law (holiness codes written for a tribe who lived 2000 years ago that you don't belong to) to justify you beliefs. You either have to follow them all or none of them! You can't be a hypocrite and pick and choose which are acceptable for you. Shellfish, out. Pork, out, doing anything on sunday (originally saturday), out, touching a woman while she is having her menstrual cycle, out. Wearing blended fabrics, out!​

    There is no evidence (other than a person's convictions) to conclude that anything in the Bible is 100 percent fact so stop presenting them as so. There are pently of errors in the Bible but that is a whole other discussion.​

    So, I'm now going to take the high road and return this post to it's original intended topic before it became a pulpit for your "belief system".​

    Hi all! Yes, I do believe Sesame Worskhop does want it both ways. At least from a marketing standpoint, hehehe!​

  11. CensoredAlso

    CensoredAlso Well-Known Member

    Most of what people post here are their "beliefs" and not facts. I think you both have a right to say what you want to say. Nobody has to read one of them or either of them if they don't want to. ;)
  12. fragglerockr

    fragglerockr Well-Known Member


    I will never fault anyone for their beliefs or their right to believe it. However, pushing them down someone's throat saying "this is wrong because my superior God, religion, holy text, sacred book, bar napkin, etc. says so, and is right because I believe it", is going a little too far.

    And no, that is straying way far of the topic. No one turned this into a religious discussion but GonzoLeaper, going out of their way to quote chapter and verse.

  13. CensoredAlso

    CensoredAlso Well-Known Member

    Oh I don't love it either. But it's just an opinion and it can't hurt me.
  14. fragglerockr

    fragglerockr Well-Known Member

    It had zero to do with the topic. It was brought about because this person doesn't like the fact that anyone (including puppets) could/should be misconstrued as homosexual. Because that would just be wrong. LOL

  15. Bannanasketch

    Bannanasketch Well-Known Member

    Okay, I'm gonna jump in for a moment considering I've watched this thread despite not being a part of it.

    I'm gonna play Devil's advocate for a moment and ask a question. What makes Gonzoleaper's post seem like shoving his beliefs down your throat? You don't have to read his posts. You can ignore him, can't you? I mean, I may not fully agree and/or disagree with what Gonzoleaper says but I'll defend his right to say it.

    Obviously, Fragglefr, you have a problem with this. You have a right to say what you want and Gonzoleaper has a right to his beliefs. Let's not try to attack people for posting their own beliefs. Seriously, I've been in this situation before. It's not good.

    So, please, act civilized and if you'd like discuss your differing opinions but please don't attack each other.

  16. CensoredAlso

    CensoredAlso Well-Known Member

    Yeah that's kind of what I'm saying. Even if I don't agree with something I hesitate to censor it, because it could just as easily happen to me.
  17. fragglerockr

    fragglerockr Well-Known Member


    Woah! You need to slow down. I think you need to go back and re-read all his posts. I am 110% civil. Just because I can hold my ground in a conversation does not mean I am angry. However, GonzoLeaper chose some inflammatory words stating that homosexuality was an "indulgence" and a "choice that people make" and that it is a "sin".

    He has no basis except for the Bible. I can quote passages from Harry Potter but that still doesn't make it fact. He started quoting scripture and verse "what the Bible says" about it to defend his position. He did say it was his opinion but this IS straying away from the subject which was originally about the portrayal of Bert & Ernie on merchandise. Sorry. if you're offended. I'm not going to let this be turned into a religious debate. Seriously, start a new thread for that.

  18. CensoredAlso

    CensoredAlso Well-Known Member

    You don't agree with it and neither do I. But it's not illegal for him to say it. That's all I'm saying.

    It's not just about the merchandise but about Sesame Street's policy on a controversial topic. How they are hesitant to portray gay couples on their show. It's not off topic.
  19. fragglerockr

    fragglerockr Well-Known Member


    I get what you're saying. You've made the point a couple of times now. What I'm saying is, is any of this on topic? If the thread is dead and people just want to discuss religion, I can do that too. I got this topic covered and then some! If people want to have a friendly debate about religion, I'm just suggesting we move it to another thread so that this can continue.

    Tell you what, you folks can discuss it ad nauseum. I have several Xmas trees and decorations to put up. I've said my piece. Y'all have a good night!

  20. CensoredAlso

    CensoredAlso Well-Known Member

    You're right I am getting repetitive, lol. I do personally think it's still on topic, both his and your responses. We were discussing if Sesame Street was being hypocritical by not addressing homosexuality on its show, but at the same time portraying it cheekily in its merchandise. Naturally the question will come up whether they should decide to portray the issue on the show or not. It's not up to me to decide what's on topic of course but that's my two cents. ;)

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