Some Help...

[Trekkie Monster]

I'm working as a puppet builder/puppeteer/designer for a project that's just getting off the ground. It deals with water saftey and water related rules. We are trying to find a cheep way to create our makeshift space to shoot the 5 minuet pilot, the problem: water. We found a indoor pool that they use to test boats, that we were thinging about useing, but that means wearing wet suits to puppeteer and stuff, and it looks complicated. I was trying to think of shows that were set in a water area, but we never actualy saw the water, so not fraggle rock, but I remeber a show that wasn't Henson, it was called somthing like "Down at the Bayou" or "Adventures at the Bayou" and there was a worm sort of creature who live in a basket by the water, and then a vilin type character who lived in a swamp and a marionette puppet that was a bird in an egg that lived on the window-sil of a shack, does it ring a bell? And if anyone has any other suggestions of puppet show I could look at that were set in/around water.

Thanks!

 

[MrsPepper]

Oh gosh, I remember that show as well. It wasn't a version of Chicken Little or something, was it? No that doesn't seem right. But I can picture that show in my mind.
However I can't exactly help you with the technical aspects. :/ But I can try and dig on info on that show for you.

Edit:
I found this while searching, it's of a puppet show about water, there's a picture. I don't know if it will help but it might give you some ideas.
http://www.usm.edu/gcrl/news_room/2005.06.06.php

 

[Buck-Beaver]

Trekkie, water is tough and potentially dangerous to work with (if you're using lights and electrical equipment). The A/V tech at the college I went to worked on Fraggle Rock and several Jim Henson specials doing safety and electrical work and talked about how difficult and dangerous these types of shoots can be. I don't think there is a really easy/cheap way to do it safely for film.

What you could try - especially for a pilot - is to shoot the puppets "platformed up" over your head as per usual and then composite in water. I think they used this technique on the Muppet Show to do the "In the Navy" Viking number. On Sesame Street they tend to shoot puppets against blue screen or green screen to do underwater effects. I think they used bunraku techniques to do some water effects for underwater numbers on the Muppet Show.

I hope that helps.

 

[ravagefrackle]

Just wanted to back Buck up on this one, your setting your self up for a difficult shoot,Matte the puppets into the shoots might be the best way,, on top of all thta, you will most likley need to build more than one version of the puppets, one for water , and one for dry land, wet puppest do not dry quickly , and the water can affect the glue, and seems , when it is wet you will find that the water laden fabric will pull at your seems more, especially if u are using fleece puppets, it will also cause skins to pill up more, and weaken the foam seems, so if possible , shoot all your water stuff at the end of the shoot , so it wont hold u up to much

 

[Trekkie Monster]

I guess I wasn't clear, The puppets won't actualy be getting wet, We were useing water as a background, it's a large pool so we would sit in the water with our arms extended above our heads and shoot at an angle se that we see water in the background. We would have a peer/dock and some prop boats and foliage around. I was thinking more about examples, or tricks you know that would make it look like we are at a peer or dock, without having actual water. some of our characters are land only creatures, (a cat) and others are both (Otter, Polar Bear, Turtle) and others are just water (Bobby the Boat) we need a space for there to be water/land interaction.

 

[Buck-Beaver]

Ah, OK this is more of a filmmaking question than a puppet one. I don't understand the need to have the puppeteers in water if the puppets aren't, but my suggestion for this would be to shoot against green screen or blue screen and composite in a background. There are a lot of great tutorials on the web for doing compositing on the cheap.

Is there a reason you wouldn't want to do that?

 

[MGov]

How about this crude design. "X" is the camera. The "o's" are the puppets.
Build out a dock set over the water with a lower dock under it for the puppeteers. Extend the lower dock a few feet beyond the edge of the upper dock so that puppeteers can work at the edge of the upper dock. Hide a few holes in the upper dock with removable "knot holes" in the wood so that the puppets can be spread out a little bit. With the camera raised up a bit, you'll see the puppets with water behind them.


X


_____________o__o__o
------------------------------
l
l POOL WATER
l
l_________________________________________________

 

[wes]

Trekkie, Have you thought of using Green screen effect or Black light puppetry for the shoot to get a uderwater scene, it might be more cost effective.

 

[Buck-Beaver]

Just for the record, black light won't photograph properly on video, unless you're using very specific (expensive) lights and camera techniques.

 

[Trekkie Monster]

Green screen always looks green screen, unless the lighting is identical in both situations, we wanted more of an earthy and natural feel then just a pool, can anyone think of any shows that were set neer water that I might be able to hunt down and look at for examples?