Something buggin me about Steve's Kermit...

Neat topic! I think I've gotten used to Steve's Kermit (heh, what time did I have to get used to? I was two when Jim died) but I noticed that in "The Muppets Celebrate Jim Henson" at the end, Kermit sounds a little "off" but that's because it was his first speaking performance after Jim died, but I think Steve's doing a wonderful job with Kermit

And about how they got a new person for Frank's characters, I think he's doing great! I remember watching VMMCM and they sounded great, although I kinda remember Fozzie being a little bit "off"

I also noticed that Gonzo's voice has changed. I think I like it better in Muppet Treasure Island when he sings. It's in a lower range and it sounds like it's easier to sing with that voice in that range. Dave also does a good job with Waldorf too

Here is my take on all of this, Its depressing to try and compare old from new.
I used to love the big huge song and dance #'s the Muppets did together, one of my favorites is from TGMC. When they do the Happiness Hotel. So much energy was put into that and so much craziness going on..
I was thrilled when I saw the She's a brick house performance on Muppets from space, Animal sticking his head in the toilet and flushing is a classic and then drying off with that oversized hair dryer. That had me in stiches.

As for the new Muppets that came from MT I love Pepe ! He seems to embody the old class of Muppets the best. I bet he is resting in that nice Jaquzi with Rizzo as we speak

hey i can do a really good current gonzo voice, especially some of the words he says in muppets from space...

anyway, in it's a very merry muppet christmas movie, when kermit says cue the intro for the big number, you can see the sock. it does kind of get to you after you see it...

ryan

I know Jerry originally did Statler for the Sex and Violence special, but when Richard took over ever since thenhe made the character what it is. Steve is able to capture that performance perfectly and makes the character what Richard made it. Jerry does a great job, but he does Statler in his own way. That's fine, but it's not the Statler I know and remember from TMS.

I did a comparison between Jerry, Richard, and Steve. You might find that you can't even tell the difference between Steve's and Richards.

http://rebootilicious.rbcorner.com/files/statcompare.zip

So what you're saying is that Jerry doesn't do it the "right" way? I'm just the taddest bit confused on that.

Personally I think it's fitting and sensible that Statler went back into Jerry's hands after Richard's passing. For starters Jerry had an advantage over other performers - he was familiar with the puppet, having performed it before. Therefore they probably didn't feel they needed to give Statler to anyone else. Plus it's kind of a...passing of the torch (or passing back the torch) thing, considering how close Jerry and Richard were.

Did I make sense in that last sentence?

-Kim

While I was reading that, I was actually listening to "Happiness Hotel" on the Muppetworld.com jukebox thing! I love that song sooo much!

Jerry does Statler a different way which TO ME does not sound or look right when I watch the performance. It's like if Steve had taklen over Kermit and instead of trying to do Kermit's voice he did Rizzo. It wouldn't look right and that is kind of like what Jerry is doing with Statler. Some people can do certain characters and others can't. I wouldn't want Steve performing Gonzo or Dave performing Rizzo even though both are very talented.

About him doing the character originally, that was one time many many years ago. Lets imagine that Frank Oz stop performing Piggy when Richard was alive. Should Richard have taken over the role just because a few times during the 1st season of the Muppet Show he played Piggy? No, because that wouldn't look or sound right. The same applies here. Also, it's nice to look at it as a passing of the torch thing, but I think it's in the best interest of the character that the performer try to emulate the characters voice at least. It makes the transition seamless and does't cause too much confusion when a person watches TMS and then watches MT and ntices the huge difference in the character.

These are just my opinions. It's how I feel when watching the "new" Statler.

One other thing I thought of: what if Richard asked Jerry or requested that Jerry take on Statler after he passed away? It could explain why Jerry took Statler on again. Plus, they may not have known at the time that Steve could do Statler as well as Kermit and Beaker.

-Kim

I was actually just thinking of that today, wondering if Miss Piggy had ever sung a traditional "bump and grind" stripper kinda song. I think that's probably the closest one. Don't ask me why I was thinking about that. We know I have problems.

And I hope people don't think I'm knocking Steve in particular--it's just one of those things that whether it's the performer, director, or cameraman, should have been caught. And I'm sure it happened back in Jim's Day too, but it was just very pronounced in the second season of Muppets Tonight.

As for the voices...well, I may be a bit more forgiving than some of you because for me it's primarily about the character, not the voice -- and most of the characters have had radically different voices even when performed by the same person. Listening to Sesame Street CDs for example, both Bert and Ernie have gone on quite the roller coaster ride in voices just under Jim and Frank's tutelage.

Heh. "Tutelage." Whatever.

And for me, I accepted Steve's Kermit AS Kermit with Muppet Christmas Carol. I think it's the line "life is made of meetings and partings, that's the way of it" or something like that. When he said that, I think I had some kind of epiphany, and accepted Steve's Kermit. It's definitely different, it always will be, but I love Steve's Kermit. Probably not as much as Jim's, because in a way I feel like Kermit WAS Jim, and so now Steve is performing JIM. But that's another spiel.

Quinnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn

*covers eyes* Oooh, not the mental image I needed at 1:30 in the morning, Quinn.

Exactly! I don't know about you, but I find it very difficult to think of a character in terms of "this puppeteer's character" and "that puppeteer's character."

Wow. Very well put, Quinn. Very well put.

(Oh, and you got the quote right, too )

-Kim

Oh, good!

Sometimes what I'm saying in my head doesn't translate well into something the rest of you can read.

And other times it should just stay in my head.

At 1:30 in the morning (okay, only midnight:30 my time)

Well you can't really "what if" something like that. We can only assume that Jerry took on Statler because they needed a Statler and he decided to take on the role so soon after Richard passed away.

Anyway, if Jerry continues to do voice looping then it's best that Steve take over just because it's better to have the live performer there than it is to voice loop.

Personally I don't think any of us are in a position to decide what is best for the Muppet performers to do with their characters.

-Kim

Amen!

The only thing that bothered me with Steve's performance of Kermit was, well, tKermit will always be Jim to me, but, the only thing that bothered me... that wasn't quite right yet was the walk. When Jim performed Kermit, he was always a little hunched over (except for when he sat down). When Steve performed Kermit, it seemed he had been to the "boneologist" and stood perfectly stragight. But, in IAVMMCM, Steve took on the hunched over walk a bit, so problem's solved.

Anyway, Steve's done a wonderful job performing Kermit, and he ios an excellent performer with all of his characters.

Hey, don't get me wrong - I'm not really criticising as such - it's just something I can't help noticing!

This is good! I can finally get it off me chest that I still have a problem with Steve's Ernie. Somehow, he plays him more sarcastically. I mean, sometimes he's alright, but when he's talking to kids in "Ernie's show and Tell" you can tell he doesn't like to do it too much.

The only Problem I have with Gonzo? I don't like the new Puppet... he lacks emotion, and since he's so "perfected" he looks more sly no matter what he's supposed to be doing. it really bothered me on the bloopers where Rizzo can't say Pietre Dish.

I know what you mean. I've noticed that a few times when Kermit was on "Hollywood Squares." It seems like when Steve is adlibbing a line he sort of sounds closer to his natural voice rather than Jim's Kermit. I hadn't noticed this in the movies or anything like that though.

Hey, one thing I don't remember seeing mentioned: the guy who took over Sweetums (I think it's John Henson) does a great job of Sweetums IMO!

Guys,

I also have big issues with the new Gonzo puppet, And the Sweetums puppet.

I also dont like Sweetums voice, Its more like Rowlf or Dr Teeth. I can do a mean Sweetums.


see ya