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What year did it all change for the worst?

Discussion in 'Classic Sesame Street' started by JimmyGillentine, Oct 28, 2006.

  1. mbmfrog

    mbmfrog Active Member

    Woah...there was no Avengers promotion for the movie ?!? :eek:

    Yet, Hardees gets the Amazing Spider-man movie. :grouchy:
  2. BTW, In 2005, There was a rumor that they should banned Cookie Monster and replace him with Veggie Monster. And it reminds of the sketch where Cookie Monster had a nightmare about the giant talking "Monster Cookie".
  3. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    Money, thrown away. If it isn't Disney's fault, BK's kid's meals are absolute garbage now. I saw a kid get a nondescript softball with no characters of any kind on them.

    But that's another rant for another time. I know McD's absolutely refuses to do PG-13 movie tie ins. At least, after Batman Returns. That's why the other Batman movies didn't get anything over there, but we got Lego Batman instead.

    .... you really like that skit, don't you?
  4. Well, In a sense I uploaded it on Youtube and the skit was actually introduced in Season 24 (1992-1993).
  5. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    Just wondering... was the Veggie Monster debacle supposed to cause a panic that would have had people frantically tuning in to see if it was true? Cuz I don't think it worked.

    That was the ONLY thing that they had going for them when that came out.
  6. Erine81981

    Erine81981 Active Member

    Here's my two cents. On when it changed for me was around the 90's. I was born around 81' i would say that the 90's were my favorites but still enjoy some late 80's shows. I believe it was around 1997 when i stopped watching. It wasn't till season 34 (2003) that i started watching the show again.

    I kinda understand where everyone is coming from when Jim Henson and Joe Roposo passed a few years apart. I would have to say that some changes of the show would be becuase of Jim and Joe's passing. Same with Jon Stone and others too. I too wonder would the show still be like it is if Jim hadn't passed away? Yes on occasion. I think (like anyone else has said) that if Jim was still here we would be getting Kermit, Guy Smiley, Ernie and some anything monsters or anything muppets insterts, songs or street scenes.

    I for one didn't mind all the changes around the 90's. Loved the Around The Corner because it gave the street a bigger street scenes. Loved Telly Monster, Ruby Monster, Rostia, Chicago the Lion, Merry Monster, Baby Bear, Zoe, Roxie Marie and many other characters through out the sseires of the 90's. I'm more of an 80's baby but i do remember several episodes from the 80's and 90's then i do any of the newer episodes.
  7. muppetfan24/7

    muppetfan24/7 Well-Known Member

    I loved the '90s Sesame Street too. Jerry's, Martin's and others were around. Even though Jim and Richard passed on, the 90's were the best of SS. I would say after 2000, I definetely stopped watching SS.

    Does anyone know this video?



    To be honest, as a young girl, Herry Monster scared me... eeeeeeeee... you know what I meant by being scared of him. Now I realized maybe he scared me because he's clumsy and knocks over objects or stuff to scare me away.

    Like I said, the 1990s to me were the best before it got wastelandish and... blech... bad.
  8. fuzzygobo

    fuzzygobo Well-Known Member

    I've said it before and I'll say it again, Sesame Street has gradually lost momentum ever since Jim died.

    The Muppets were the core of the show, and he was the rudder that steered the ship. Without a rudder, the only direction you ship can go in is circles.

    Since Jim's death, Sesame Workshop has had to compete with shows like Barney. This led to a gradual lowering of the show's viewing demographic, and the rise of the current format that stresses repetition and structure. Like clockwork, episodes opened with a street scene, a Letter of the Day segment, following a predictable formula, and inevitably the last 15 minutes given over to Elmo. Before, the show, although thoroughly researched, did have that element of surprise, that you didn't know what the next segment was going to be. Those days are gone.

    Can't blame the downturn of the show entirely on Elmo, but while Jim was alive, there was a balance and chemistry that worked. No one character, however popular, dominated or defined the show. By devoting at least 1/4 of the show's airtime to one character, the biggest expense was abandoning a number of characters could have kept that balance together.

    I know some people have given me grief when I made this comment before, but Sesame Street could have stood as a the most powerful show in children's tv history if they wrapped it up after 20 seasons. (Maybe 30) From 1969-1989, 20 perfect seasons. Very little filler. But then again, if they stopped at 20, a thread like this wouldn't exist.
  9. dinoboy

    dinoboy Member

    I always hated change. So When the street scenery changed, the classic fast motion short movies stopped playing, and the overal sillyness came to a halt. Now everything is all being healthy and serious, and they'll probably get cookie monster to stop eating cookies, Oscar the grouch to clean out his trash can. And maybe Bert and Ernie will be living in seperate apartments.
  10. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    Jeez. Hey! We gotta round up Turkey Lurkey and Loosy Goosey and tell the king the sky is falling.

    Seriously?

    There are 3 things we commonly forget.

    1. The show is pushing 45. How many shows have lasted so much as 10 seasons... 5 seasons without changing something? A show that's on longer than 5 years will get flack for changing or remaining the same. You can't win. Look at the Simpsons. It gets BOTH at the same time!
    2. Sesame Street was a show designed to adapt to changes in educational standards. In other words, it's a show that's designed to change with something that changes all too frequently, and often changes back when something's discredited.
    3. And I can't stress this enough... it's a preschool show. Unless you're a parent watching the show with your kids, you're well out of their demographic. They have made strides to release classic footage on their website and DVD, and sell nostalgia merchandise. That's a grand gesture, considering they don't need to give us anything.
    Seriously... I absolutely love it when people panic over one skit that aired 6 years ago and suddenly the entire show changed all the character personalities, especially when it didn't. Sesame Street now officially has more footage of Cookie Monster decrying the Veggie Monster crap (their own fault for botching up the press release) than eating an actual veggie... even though they had that PSA all the way back in the 70's.

    You know... back when the character was 5 years old?

    I suppose now, Sherri Netherland can't own a hotel and Monty will only do Goon Show references. :rolleyes:

    Sure, there's a lot of stuff I dislike about the show's direction. The insistence that every failing of America's educational system has to be their burden, and the constant reliance on "initiatives" that bludgeon the blunt end of the lesson into everyone's heads. Not every episode needs to be about engineering, and we don't need 3 exactly the same sketches in an episode about how a pulley works. I don't like how they have to make the show separate shows if their budget forces them to rerun the same not 26 episodes worth of footage 3 times per season as a minimum. That's something they should work on. And guess what? That will, like every other change on Sesame Street change back. Think about it this way. The longest hold out was Elmo's World. And even that's gone after 12 or so years. Nothing is permanent.
  11. Muppet dude

    Muppet dude Active Member

    I'm not sure. The show has always been experimental. Heck, you compare an episode from 1987 with an episode from 1971 and you're gonna notice several differences!

    But as for a year when they really changed, I'm gonna have to go with 1993. By this point, they had to compete with Barney, hence the whole "Around the Corner" thing, those crazy new Muppets that hogged the screentime (the Squirrelles and the Furry Arms Hotel employees anyone?), becoming a bit more childish, and the use of the trained child actors (again ala Barney) instead of really young actual children and often improvising with them, among when they began "updating" classic segments with new music and stuff. Not only that, but 1993 was when I stopped watching, by the end of Season 24 (the new opening and closing weren't so bad when used with that season, and I also am probably one of the few that counts Season 24 as the final "classic" season.)
    I also noticed that the only character that was prominent during that "Around the Corner" era that survived after its demise was Benny Rabbit. But then again, he debuted in 1991, before he became a bellhop rabbit, and even back then he still had his distinct grumpy personality.
  12. Oscarfan

    Oscarfan Well-Known Member

    I seriously don't think the amount of classic clips used during a season really defines whether or not a season is good or not. It's really rests on the new material and how good it is.
    Drtooth likes this.
  13. D'Snowth

    D'Snowth Well-Known Member

    Benny didn't really survive so much: he had some longevity since dismantling ATC, but it's been few and far between. Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Benny end up becoming one of those "rejected" Muppets that got shipped overseas to be a regular character on an international co-production within the last few years or so? Like Sesamstraat, I believe?
  14. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    That's a distinction that frankly gets even less meaningful when you realize that most of those classic clips are somewhere online. It's not so much the lack of classic clips that's the current show's problem. The lack of newer footage sticks out like a soar thumb. I do believe, however, older segments could help remedy that. And since ETM takes up less space than EW, there seems to be more of an opportunity to put something short from the last 2 decades in. Too bad they resort to "getting their money's worth" and reusing parody/celebrity segments twice a season.
  15. cjd874

    cjd874 Well-Known Member

    I was a child of the late 90s, so I grew up with SS right after ATC came to an end. There were early signs of the radical change that was to come, such as the Tickle Me Elmo craze and those quick bits where a Muppet would introduce a segment, like Ernie & Rubber Duckie announcing the letter of the day.
    I would say that it was Season 32 when it REALLY changed for the worst. That was when we saw Journey to Ernie, the Letter/Number of the Day segments, and various other predictable segments, not to mention Elmo's World. This was also when Frank and Jerry's main Muppets stopped appearing for a few years (we only saw the Count and Cookie for a while, very little Bert, Grover, Mumford, Herry, etc). It just didn't have the same authentic feel as the Street of the past three decades. It felt like it was commercialized to the extreme (Zoe in a tutu to appeal to younger girls, for example).
    Nowadays, we have Abby's Flying Fairy School taking up just as much time as Elmo the Musical. I don't mean to come off as rude, but in my honest opinion the show might as well be the Abby and Elmo Show.
  16. Oscarfan

    Oscarfan Well-Known Member

    Couple of corrections:
    • That's season 33
    • AFFS actually came before ETM, and EW was way longer than Fairy School
    If you look at the show now, yes, Elmo and Abby have their own portions, but Grover's getting a lot of momentum; he's been in practically every show this season. Some episodes have given him a Super Grover 2.0 bit, then another sketch with him right afterward.
  17. cjd874

    cjd874 Well-Known Member

    Oh yes, you're right. Sorry about that season 32/33 error. It's been a while since I've watched SS daily.
  18. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    Here's the wonderful thing about season 33. None of the people involved with the show liked it either, and it changed quite quickly after that. Journey to Ernie was completely awful in its first incarnation, but the following season, they changed the concept completely so it was actually enjoyable. Had the Two Headed Monster in every segment. That can't be bad. And it didn't even last 3 seasons even after they changed it. The letter and number introductions would change too, and back in season 39, they really changed them up, back to being connected to the main street story most of the time, hosted by the regular cast. They even tried to, but to no avail, bring the show back to the original roots of being interrupted by segments instead of having the street story be one solid 15 minute block. Unfortunately, it didn't take the 2 episodes they tried it.

    The thing is, the will to change the show back is there, but they painted themselves into quite a corner otherwise. Of course, the block format not only brought the show back very good ratings, but it also got back the very same 4-5 year olds they lost pandering to the 3 and under crowd. There are rumblings that Abby's Flying Fairy School is no longer in production... if that is true, I accept it because it's basically just reruns 90% of the time.
  19. minor muppetz

    minor muppetz Well-Known Member

    Somebody already corrected you about those segments premiering in season 33, but actually Frank's characters started to appear more in seasons 32 and 33. It was around this time that they were beginning to be performed by other people (though Muppet Wiki claims Eric Jacobson had began as Grover and Bert in 1997. I don't know what that source is, but I first heard about these recasts in 2001, and don't know of any pre-season 32 episodes where he performed either. Unless he was being trained for a few years before he started doing them on the show).
  20. Oscarfan

    Oscarfan Well-Known Member

    He did Grover as early as season 30; he's doing Grover in "I'm Talkin' Love" and you can hear him doing Grover in "Gospel Alphabet". The only example of him doing Bert before season 32 I know of is the season 31 sketch where Elmo talks about emotions.


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