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Where is Steve Whitmire Petition

Discussion in 'Muppet Headlines' started by theprawncracker, Sep 13, 2009.

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  1. dwmckim

    dwmckim Well-Known Member

    This will probably be a VERY UO (esp how we've talked so much in this thread about how fans have come to expect nothing less than the best puppetry in Muppeteering vs what was done in the earlier days), but as far as animation goes - i personally find a lot of charm in "bad" animation - and usually makes it funnier. Part of what made Rocky & Bullwinkle such a joy to watch was the animation style (though it may be thought of as "bad") - the same way that (sorry all Chipmunks fans on here), i dearly loved the original Alvin Show cartoons and would laugh hysterically at them but just couldn't get behind the overpolished 80's revival or anything that came after that - the zaniness and everything that made the original great was gone. Then there was the first Simpsons episode (which was held back as the last broadcast episode in the first season). My friends and i (not knowing the history when it first aired) RAVED about it because they were "getting more experimental" with the wild expressions - things like the rubbery door closing - it seemed more like they were harkening back to the original Tracy Ullman shorts! (Then later it came out that Matt Groening actually hated that and that's why that episode was held back and reworked so much even with all the traces of the original that made it in! Though watching the stuff that they did fix on the first season box set one could see why they were horrified as some of it was just waayy too much!)

    Sometimes to me at least the best cartoons in terms of humor and watchibility are the ones with the unpolished and rougher animation. I can laugh uncontrollably at the old Popeye shorts where half the time Popeye's mouth doesn't move as the voice actor is adlibbing more than i do watching most of the stuff that came from the 80s or beyond.
  2. dwmckim

    dwmckim Well-Known Member

    Yes, cue the closing credits and part-happy, part-sappy music! As i've stated throughout, one of the main reasons this thread has been so emotionally charged was been because unlike when other recasts/substitutes has happened, this time it was totally out of the blue, unexpected, and no one had any idea what was going on or if/when Steve would be back. Knowing that Steve is back where he belongs will ease a lot of fans' collective tension and things should return back to normal here!

    I'd still reccomend sending in postcards to Steve if you hadn't yet done so since (a) it is a gift for him and that element doesn't change (b) it still sends the message to Disney that the way they handled the whole situation was very bad, unacceptable and is a major mistake that should not be repeated.
  3. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    Watch a Super Mario 3 cartoon sometime. That has the worst animation I've ever seen. And it's not that well written most of the time.
  4. GuySmileyfan

    GuySmileyfan Well-Known Member

    WHOOPPEE! He's alright! It's a miracle!:)
  5. dwmckim

    dwmckim Well-Known Member

    "So, Mr. Kermit the Frog, you recently returned back to the limelight after having an imposter make public appearances impersonating you. What do you plan to do now?"

    "I'm going to Disneyland!"
  6. RockSTAR girl

    RockSTAR girl Well-Known Member

    yay! Steve's back.
    Woo woooooh
  7. SkeksisGirl

    SkeksisGirl Member

  8. ChickyBoy37

    ChickyBoy37 Well-Known Member

    I Just a Disney World Commercial with the muppets. I had a Feeling Steve would never Quit the Muppets.
  9. Muppetfan55

    Muppetfan55 Member

    You know guys, forget all of the wild rumors, conspiracy theories, and juicy gossip.

    Most often, the most boring explanation is usually the real one.

    For all we know, it really could have been possible that Steve was just unavailable to perform Kermit for two occasions and if that is the case, Disney would NEVER publicly discuss that.

    After all, we all know the "truth". Kermit is not a puppet, he is a real frog. and Piggy is a real pig, and so on.

    Also, as I understand it, Artie was a member here in the past, and some people here were hoping that he would make a post and explain things.
    Uh guys, WAKE UP. When Artie was performing Kermit he was probably contractually obligated NOT to discuss anything! Welcome to the real world.

    Also, I still stand by what I said in my first post. (most people didn't notice it)
    Artie gave it a good effort. In all probability, he was most likely the closest match that they could find.

    And as for that talk of his puppetry being stiff, there may be some validity there, but I think that most of that was just sour grapes.

    And guys, you can backpedal and twist things all you want, but some of the things that were said on these boards WERE in fact, insults towards Artie.
    I wouldn't blame him if he never came here again.

    Don't get me wrong, I am not trying to be mean. I just find it disgusting that people over-reacted to this so much, which resulted in one of the the worst wars that I have ever seen on this board.
    Like Frogster insulting people who liked the Muppets as they are now, and Kyan ripping people apart.

    And see? It was all for nothing. I always knew that everything would turn out alright somehow.

    I will end this with one last statement.

    The Muppet performers are NOT immortal, someday Steve will not be around anymore, and when that day comes, Kermit might be passed to Artie. And you will all just have to live with that.
  10. Luke

    Luke Well-Known Member

    The point here though is that Henson went 20 years nearly without actually putting a substitute in if Steve wasn't available. It was not the ONLY option. This was about them actually diverting from One Muppet, One Voice on a major character, not who performed it. Any critiques of the work were valid, not personal to the performer .. and totally have a place on this forum. If you say the puppetry was stiff, you are reviewing the work, not personally insulting anyone.

    I don't see the need to dissecting every part of the appearances now but the proof is there in the watching of these clips that there are certain stiff moments and slip ups. I don't think it was sour grapes if its actually there on the video.
  11. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    This whole subject is closed as far as I'm concerned. He's back and we need NO explanation as to why he was gone... that doesn't really matter now. We'll never know the truth, and I pretty much don't care about it now that he is back.

    The problem I still say stems from the fear that Disney would recast cheaper sound-a-likes. but then again, since the substitute Kermit's performance went over like a lead balloon, I don't think we'd need to worry about that anymore.

    As for the performances, I'm agreeing with Luke on this one... it isn't "sour grapes" at all... I don't think ANY of us would want to have to be saddled with such a subtle character to perform last minute. Again, I'm sure he's a great puppeteer... but he really doesn't have a handle on Kermit, and his movements seemed all too nervous in front of a live audience. I don't think he was ready... and, frankly, I think he was just chosen to perform him for these 2 appearances because he sounded the most approximately almost like Kermit out of all the other available performers, and it was too late to cancel both times.

    Though I agree... he probably can't say anything because he'd be fired if he did so. I wish him the best and hope he finds his own character.
  12. Muppetfan55

    Muppetfan55 Member

    Like I said, there probably IS some validity to the puppetry being stiff. I just think that people may have taken it overboard since emotions were running high.

    Kermit is a hard character in terms of emoting. His head is very flexible and there is always a danger of overdoing expressions or just not being expressive enough.

    Clearly, in those two appearances, Kermit was not being as facially expressive as he usual is, (he tried though) but I think that was the extent of it being stiff. That was the only problem.

    As far as the voice, he gave it a good effort. Clearly a bit different than what we are used to, but still a good effort.
  13. Muppetfan55

    Muppetfan55 Member

    ...And assuming that enough fans sent letters, I'm sure that they will get the point that fans didn't like what happened.
  14. unclematt

    unclematt Well-Known Member


    This thread had moved past the negativity. I do not know if you are trying to disrupt that intentionally or if you are unaware but we really have done alot to clean this thread up and I would hope it would remain that way. Please be careful when choosing your words as to not to take this thread down the path it was once heading.

    Thank you,

  15. Luke

    Luke Well-Known Member

    When you see a Muppet performance it should be the best there is, there is nobody else at all with such a good reputation for quality. I've seen web/cable TV shows that have been Dave Goelz under a table holding up Gonzo, with one camera and poor lighting, and it was STILL faultless and pretty much perfect. No matter who is performing at any time, it has to keep up this level under Disney, if they cut corners they ruin the Muppet name and most importantly for them, their investment.
  16. ChickyBoy37

    ChickyBoy37 Well-Known Member

    I am aware of the fact that Performers are not immortal.
  17. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    But this thread sure is... there's really NO point in talking, deliberating, and adding anything else here. The subject IS closed. Steve IS back, and whatever reason he was gone is unimportant right now.
  18. Oscarfan

    Oscarfan Well-Known Member

    Apparently, Kermit was on GMA this morning. Anyone watch it to see if it was Steve still?
  19. Luke

    Luke Well-Known Member

    Hold up, lets make sure its Steve back permanently and there are no more switcheroos! :p
  20. MelissaY1

    MelissaY1 Well-Known Member

    I have to say I'm with Muppetfan. I know everyone's entitled to their opinion, thankfully Steve IS back, and I am happy that the thread has turned positive. I'm not trying to stir up trouble other than to say I totally agree with him/her and I think there was alot of overreacting over nothing.

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