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Why are Elmo, Zoe, Rosita and Baby Bear so annoying to classic SS fans?

Discussion in 'Classic Sesame Street' started by mikealan, Feb 16, 2003.

  1. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    EXACTLY!!! They dumb stuff down so some 1 year olds can watch tv.. they can bearly see colors and solid shapes by that age... :rolleyes:

    That's why we're force fed junk like Teletubbies and Barney the Dinosaur:eek:
  2. SillyRed

    SillyRed Member

    "Elmo wants to play a game"
    How he does third person talk is funny!!
  3. CookieFan

    CookieFan New Member

    That whole AAP guideline about kids not watching TV until they're 2 is silly. Obviously whoever made that suggestion has never tried to cook dinner with an 18 month old running wild in the kitchen!

    I have to admit that I let my kid watch too much TV sometimes. Especially with this blizzard we just had, can't go out to the playground.

    Personally, I don't find Elmo referring to himself in the 3rd person particularly funny. Supposedly toddlers don't understand pronouns and refer to themselves in the 3rd person, which is what Elmo does, but my kid knows the word "MINE" very well!
  4. Hays

    Hays New Member

    Well, you know, they're all doctors and can afford nannies and cooks! (We'd also never eat if not for TV)

    Funny - Cookie Monster in third person I find hysterical, Elmo not so much. Just personal preference, I guess.
  5. Don'tLiveonMoon

    Don'tLiveonMoon New Member

    I used to kinda like Elmo, though as Byron said, in small doses. Once Elmo's World came on and monopolized half the show, I lost all my tolerance for Elmo. Rosita I'm a little ambivalent about. She doesn't do much for me, but usually she doesn't particularly annoy me either. Baby Bear is the one I absolutely cannot stand. Listening to him is like nails on a chalkboard for me. Sesame Street is still good, but I just think that it was at its best when I was growing up. But then, I'm probably nostalgically biased! ;)
  6. Mr. Looper

    Mr. Looper New Member

    To me part of the charm of the classics was the variety, whenever I get a chance to watch SS now half of it is elmo. I like elmo but really the fun of the classic show was a minute or 2 of something and move on to the next. Maybe this has something to do with the criticism by many that TV ruins the attention span of kids and that quick short segments are the bane of proper education. But frankly I think they'd have short attention spans anyway and that quicker shorter segments is the only way to keep them interested. I turn off elmo's world now and I've only seen it 2 or 3 times.

  7. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    You are dead on right Mr. Looper... so, I...uh...gee... what was I saying anyway? Oh Yeah! I'm on the chicken vs. pork discussion board! It's the other white meat and that's the last you'll hear from me!

    Just kidding!;)

    Yeah, you miss the thrill of seeing what comes next! If a cartoon or skit scared you, you'd jump out of the chair, and change the Channel at that point, now it's so structured, you almost fall asleep before it.
  8. Hays

    Hays New Member

    OK, I should also add here that, nostalgia notwithstanding, I HATED Sesame Street in the early 90's. I much prefer the current batch of Muppets to those two insanely annoying monkeys, and the current cast to that perky dance instructor! I'll take a two-hour Elmo special over that clan!

    It does help to see it through the eyes of a toddler, though there is a limit to the amount of repetition even for that age!
  9. beaker

    beaker Well-Known Member

    Well the early 90's were a darkened horrible time for the Muppets/JHC in general. But I get to see some of the new Sesame on dvds and vhs(my birds loves the stuff, so I rent em at the local ibrary) I love Telly...I cant say enough good things about him. I think and him Baby Bear work great, heck I love em all.
    IMHO, Elmopalooza...best Sesame thing Ive seen in ages.
  10. antsamthompson9

    antsamthompson9 Well-Known Member

    I don't find any of the characters annoying. Maybe because, they were around when I was little.
  11. PinballStewie

    PinballStewie New Member

    All 4 of those characters were around back when I watched the show (particularly Elmo), but to me they just seem one-dimensional from an adult perspective. It's a shame because Fran Brill and Kevin Clash are both very talented people (I don't know the other two that well). Fran was great as Lily Marvin in "What About Bob" (which has other Muppet connections since Frank Oz was a part of the direction of the film), and of course I remember her as Prairie Dawn from SS ;) Kevin Clash is awesome - first of all Hoots the Owl rocks! And second of all, it seems like he has a great musical range. Wasn't he the Billy Idol Muppet who performed "Rebel L" and the blue Muppet with the striped shirt in "Big Kids Cry"? Kevin must have a thing for punk rock lol.

    The thing about Elmo, Zoe, Baby Bear, and Rosita is that, like I said earlier, they're one-dimensional. They're personality is that of a typical little kid that adults can't quite relate to. Even Big Bird was initially thought of as a "clumsy adult", and although the show states he's 6, I still think of him as a "clumsy adult". The Count and Cookie Monster have the whole OCD/instant gratification thing (no offense meant to those who have OCD, I have it too), Ernie and Bert represent (to me) what a typical friendship can be like for both kids and adults, Oscar's got an attitude that anyone can relate to, Grover's the clumsy, bungling one that, again, many people can relate to since they've had experiences like that throughout their life. And Kermit the Frog, of course, is the most well-versed and relatable to the lives and experiences of everyone, no matter what age :) Elmo, Zoe, Baby Bear, and Rosita lack those qualities. Even Telly seemed like a hypochondriac at times, another quality that I think people of multiple age groups can relate to.
  12. CensoredAlso

    CensoredAlso Well-Known Member

    I do think they are written very one-dimensionally compared to the older characters. They are cute, happy and eager to learn, period. Even one of Sesame Street's producers said in an interview, "We'd probably never create a character like Oscar today." Well, that's a shame and a loss for the show's audience.

    Of course when these new characters are taken out of the structure of the show to make live appearances, they are often much more humorous and charming. :)
  13. Ilikemuppets

    Ilikemuppets New Member

    I don't see it. I mean when Baby bear was first on the show, he was one dimensional, and so was Zoe. I really think they've grown and come from that.
  14. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    I still find these characters only a bane because they all premiered about the time SS took the "dive" the classic fans say. Elmo I really understand, since...well... if you don't know by now, I ain't pointing it out. But I really think Rosita and Zoe are some of the best female characters they've had since Prairie Dawn. They came out of that era where they were desperate to put some girl monsters in there to even out the male dominated section of the show. And we had such near misses (no pun intended) with Merry (Mary?) Monster (played by a dude), Google, Phoebe, Lulu, etc. etc. Characters that just screamed "add them or we'll write an article about how sexist you are." with mild personality, and no development of any kind. Mainly cuz they were abandoned as soon as the writers realized that they can't write anything for them (The Ol' Fleet Scribbler syndrome). I did like Ruby, and I really think she could have been bigger. She was one of the much more developed ones.

    Baby Bear, I feel has come a long way. There are characters that just evolve out of a puppeteer wanting a main character (or more characters)... and Baby Bear seems to have come out of David Rudman wanting to be a bigger part of the show (before he took over Cookie). In fact, much as I like the old Elmer Fudd/Yosemite Sam type deal he had with Goldilocks, it made the character way too one dimentional. I really think that when they paired him up with Telly, the character took off and became a regular. I really liked the saga about him dealing with getting a little sister. We really got to see a nice character exploration.
  15. mr3urious

    mr3urious Well-Known Member

    I like Baby Bear and Rosita, and I do agree that the former works a lot better when paired up with Telly. Elmo and Zoe... not so much, especially with Elmo's overexposure these days! :mad: But we can all agree that he was a lot more tolerable before the whole Tickle Me Elmo craze.

    And if the producers had given Ruby, Merry, and Lulu more screen time, they would have had a better chance to develop their personalities (so long as they don't cram them down our throats), and they would still be on the show today. But good luck trying to have them compete with Elmo! :D
  16. Baby Gonzo

    Baby Gonzo Member

    Rosita and Zoe are cute characters that have potential that hasn't been unlocked, and somehow I doubt ever will. They are somewhat bland in comparison to other characters. I feel as though they are lacking in that one defining character trait that other characters have... Examples would be: Oscar is a grouch, Cookie Monster loves to eat cookies, Telly is neurotic, Grover is ready to please, the Count counts... ect. I honestly wonder how these characters would have been handled if they were around back in the 70s and 80s.
  17. Kiki

    Kiki Active Member

    As much as I love "classic" SSt, I don't have a problem with those characters. I love Zoe and Rosita. Even Baby Bear. I don't...reeeeeaaaaaallly mind Elmo, I just find him overexposed. *Shrug* Then again, I grew up with 1990s SSt.
  18. The Shoe Fairy

    The Shoe Fairy Active Member

    I don't really like Baby Bear, but I do appreciate him as a character. As for the other 3, Zoe and Rosita I really do love, and are in my top Muppet list, as is Elmo. Elmo is unique, that some of the material is just weak and boring, and I can't watch it, and other times I find him utterly hilarious, on or off the street.
  19. Wiseman

    Wiseman Member

    The newer characters

    I agree that SS is getting younger in its approach and audience and it's not trying to appeal to the adults as much as it used to. Originally the whole idea of the SS experiment was one to use TV to teach something and two to provide something that children and adults could watch together and talk about afterwards. As for Elmo, Zoe, Rosita, and Baby Bear, I find them appropriate for their age group, but they can be a little bit boring and repetitive (spchk) to us older viewers. As a preschool teacher and a father of a 6 year old and a 2 year old I am required by law to watch it. If I don't the SS police will come and put me in jail and make me watch alternating segments of Elmo's world and Bob Dole's presidential campaign (see, even some adults talk that way). Occasionally, though they do throw in some things that only the adults will get. Elmo's teeth segment with his "new" video game comes to mind. What kid nowadays knows who Pac-Man was? Another good one is where Emo was thinking about music and the violin said in regards to Dorothy's imagination segment "We're going to watch a fish think. This oughta be interesting." You could feel the sarcasm, but then you remembered the line was coming from a talking violin an equally absurd concept.

    Also in the ep, where Telly is trying to learn how to catch a ball (an art which still eludes me also sometimes) Baby Bear's "Keep your eye on the balll and catch it machine" was something that would have made Rube Goldberg proud. Most kids don't know or care who Rube was, but his machines are classic and have been emulated by many cartoonists, puppeteers and even a few regular people throughout the ages.

    Zoe is ok, but she is a bit of a one-note character. Does she ever take off that tutu?

    As for Rosita, her Spanish teaching is something kids need nowadays, unfortunately, though Rosita tends to teach the words out of context. Spanish like all other languages is more than just a collection of words, and if Zoe really wants to teach the kids Spanish she should teach them how the words are used too. What would also be interesting would be if Plaza Sesamo would have an English speaking character thrown into the mix to teach Spanish speaking kids English. :wisdom:
  20. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    Unfortunately? Sheesh! You do realize that almost every other country teaches multiple languages to their children since preschool. And I doubt Sesame Street would have to be so advanced that they have to teach kids to conjugate verbs in Spanish. They've always taught different words in Spanish since the 70's at least. Having a bilingual character (who has wonderful Ricky Ricardo-esque fits where she's so upset she can't even express it in English). Much better than a certain latina "Explora" who speaks both languages like she doesn't know how to speak either.

    As for Zoe, yeah... I hated the character at first. Remember when she just came out and she came off as.... I can't say dumb so much as a mixture of none too bright and either not quite sane or non-sequitor (think Homsar)... but I think Fran really found the voice for the character and she evolved into something a lot better than "Did you just say lemon Cheese Zoe?" I think Zoe actually brings out a lot of Elmo's character that we don't usually see. They clearly have a prelove sort of thing that you know they're going to be a couple when they're older... and that stuff about Rocko annoying Elmo to an angering extent, you really get to explore Elmo a LOT more than when he's talking about how Birthday Cakes can't cross the street.

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