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Why are Elmo, Zoe, Rosita and Baby Bear so annoying to classic SS fans?

Discussion in 'Classic Sesame Street' started by mikealan, Feb 16, 2003.

  1. Oscarfan

    Oscarfan Well-Known Member

    One thing I wonder is how useful is Rosita outside of the American show? In the Plaza Sesamo clips I have her in, she's no bilingual at all. So, what would distinguish her from any other monster otehr than being female?
  2. StreetScenes

    StreetScenes Member

    well, i think that's the point, though--when it gets taken out of context and only single words are presented, it's not presented as a language. same thing happened to asl on sesame street after linda was on less frequently in street scenes and relegated to the "how do you sign ___?" segments. just having a single word doesn't show what communicating in a language means or how people use it. i think ovejita is used far better than rosita at teaching what spanish is and what it means to speak it, along with some vocabulary.
  3. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    I saw a clip that was obviously about Rosita teaching Elmo a word in Spanish DUBBED INTO SPANISH on that program. I'm sure that that's used to teach some other languages (if not Spanish) in international shows (sort of like how !Hace Calor! was redubbed completely for Shalome Sesame)... but really... I agree. What use is a bilingual character when they take the ethnicity and other languages away in the dub? I'd tend to think that they should have renamed the character Rosey and had her teach everyone English words.

    I would agree, but then again, I think the whole goal is to introduce preschoolers to Spanish. And a couple words and phrases here and there is the only way you can really do that to 3-5 year olds (Something they've been doing since the 70's again, though they did have the occasional dubbed Spanish cartoon). I do agree Ovejita is a little better at that, since she speaks entirely in Spanish. I think Rosita needs more scenes with Maria and Luis where she talks to them in Spanish... something I really like about that character. Plus, it doesn't hurt to have some ethnicity in the monsters... even though I tend to lump the monsters in the same category as cartoon animals. They don't specifically have a race... some show some ethnicity, but they're not technically anything other than animals/monsters.

    That said, I'd love to see a Rosita teaching basic Spanish DVD collection at some point.
  4. heralde

    heralde Well-Known Member

    My view is, perhaps they are appropriate for the age group, but Sesame Street should also challenge kids with things outside of their knowledge and safety bubble, so they can learn more or recall things later in life.
  5. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    But let's not forget that those characters stood the test of time. While Telly is the elder statesman of the group (he was around since the 80's) and Elmo is a close second, Zoe, Baby Bear and Rosita came out of the turbulent time when a certain purple yutz was stealing the show's spotlight... not to mention multiple important people behind the show passing on in the early 90's.... the show struggled to find itself... and while those three characters are still around, let's remember all those other characters they tried to add to fill out the cast...

    Sherri Netherland
    Humphry
    Ingrid
    Baby Natasha
    Stinky the Stinkweed
    Benny Rabbit
    The Clubhouse Monsters
    Lulu
    Elizabeth and Little Murray Sparkles
    And so on and so forth.

    While some of them were around until just recently, they all came from having to create newer characters to fill up huge gaps left by Jim and Richard's passing, and Frank's film career. Dave Golez even had to be brought in for a couple episodes.

    And most of the characters the fans want need to be recast, and just haven't been yet. Guy Smiley made his first new appearance in the show in nearly 20 years this past season. Recasting muppeteers is easier said than done, as they have to sound approximately like them, and get the characters down right. Look how many people had a hand in Scooter (pun intended of course) before he was finally solidly cast.
  6. heralde

    heralde Well-Known Member

    Yeah I mean I don't want to be too critical here, it's not like we're talking about a certain purple dinosaur, hehe. And I wouldn't be completely against my future kids seeing these characters. But I also know they'll be watching the Old School DVDs...disclaimer or no disclaimer. ;)
  7. Ilikemuppets

    Ilikemuppets New Member

    Let's not forget about Telly's equally neurotic friend Juliet. She complimented Telly really well. Love how they used to one up each other with worries with the violin music becoming more dramatic each time. But if something ends up going well they go the other way and the music gets more pleasant with time and they get more happy and excitable. It's too much fun to watch those tow together!
  8. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    Too late... I already forgot about her... :p
  9. Ilikemuppets

    Ilikemuppets New Member

    What? You didn't care for her or something?
  10. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    In 40 years of the show, there are so many characters, it's hard to keep track of ones that didn't last all that long. I'm surprised I remember Mary/Merry monster at all. :insatiable:
  11. antsamthompson9

    antsamthompson9 Well-Known Member

    How could anyone hate Rosita? She is so cute and fun to watch. Even Nanto on YouTube, who hates most of the 90's characters, likes Rosita.
  12. GonzoLeaper

    GonzoLeaper Well-Known Member

    I have no problem with Elmo, Zoe, Rosita, Baby Bear or any other character on Sesame Street. They're all cool.:):wisdom::super:
  13. HeyButtahfly

    HeyButtahfly Well-Known Member

    I like Rosita, though it took me a couple of years to understand the concept of a bilingual character. IMO the annoying thing about Zoe is her laugh. Otherwise she's okay. I have never been able to stand Baby Bear because of his manner of speaking (to put it politely). I don't necessarily think Elmo is annoying but a lot has been done to shove him down our throats, so to speak. Overexposure of any other highly energetic SS Muppet with a colorful personality would end up being grating as well.
  14. antsamthompson9

    antsamthompson9 Well-Known Member

    Wow, that's cool to hear! I feel the same way.
  15. MeepMeepBork

    MeepMeepBork Member

    I was part of the generation of kids who got the original Tickle Me Elmo for Christmas in '96ish, so naturally, I loved Elmo growing up. He was slowly gaining popularity at the time, but not quite "in your face" yet. By the time Elmo's World came about I had started my "I'm too old for Sesame Street" phase, so it really didn't matter to me at the time. Of course nowadays, it's The Elmo and Abby Show, which is pretty annoying.

    Rosita and Baby Bear... Eh. They were there. I learned a few Spanish words from Rosita, and Baby Bear was kinda cute and made me aware of speech impediments.

    Zoe, however, was never anything more than an orange thing with an annoying nails-on-a-chalkboard laugh and a pet rock to me. Yawn!
  16. Muppet Frog

    Muppet Frog Member

    I find Zoe, Abby and Rosita's purple eyelids the cutesy.
  17. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    I'm not going to even bother with Elmo. Too much ground covered too many times.

    Now Abby, I greatly dislike the fact she has a major focus, but what would you rather watch? a 15 minute plotless meander through a single subject as a bad excuse for a character vehicle or an 8 minute cartoon with charming characters, fun stories and pretty sly at times humor? As for the character herself, I feel she is over used and none of her potential is fully tapped. Again, there's a very good chance to teach kids some life lessons by the fact she's the only one who has magic powers. They can teach about how kids get envious of other kids who have richer parents that give them everything. But they basically resort to just Elmo making her screw up with her magic. Still, I do like Abby as far as new characters go.

    Rosita I covered multiple times in this thread already. When certain groups feel their ethnicity isn't represented in the media, producers artificially make bad shows and bad movies to appease them. I've said it multiple times, but ethnic characters are basically personality devoid creations on nervous Caucasians who are too afraid that any personality will result in someone whining it's a stereotype (look at how long it took them to do Princess and the Frog.. they kept having to answer to EVERYONE and no one was happy with any direction). Rosita, I'm glad to say ISN'T one of those cases. She's authentic, she's an actual character who speaks actual fluent Spanish, and she just happens to have learned English really well. We have an authentic Latino performer breathing life into an authentic Latino character. her Spanish speaking is as authentic as Luis and Maria. And they aren't afraid to show that they have a close bond and speak Spanish together like you'd REALLY see in real life. heck, i really like Rosita, and think she's a vastly underrated role model... unlike Dora. Does she even have a personality.

    Zoe and baby Bear I've also already covered. But Baby Bear really came out of the necessity (as far as I know) for David to have a regular character that hangs around with the main cast. If you think about it, everyone but Abby (who was created later and as an intent market push) basically came into staring roles due to the lack of certain characters performer departures left behind. Jim and Richard were gone, Frank was doing his own thing, and he didn't have his characters as available... and they ran a lot of older sketches in the mix... but where were Street characters besides Big Bird and Oscar? These characters listed had staying power, if you think about all the others we lost over the years...
  18. muppetmonster

    muppetmonster New Member

    I think it could be due to three things:

    1. They take popularity away from the other major characters (Ernie, Bert, Cookie Monster, Grover, the Count, Oscar the Grouch; the characters people have always come to know and love)

    2. The characters are not that well developed, instead of focusing on how to make them likable, they just come off with uninteresting and uncharismatic vibes

    3. This one is just due to Elmo, but I brought the anniversary edition of "Follow that Bird" on DVD, and Elmo is on the cover. He is not even in it! If he is in it, it is just a very trivial appearance, nothing more, nothing less. Why must everything always revolve around goody two shoes Elmo?

    Bluntly, I do not watch the show, but I know every episode nowadays is mostly about them, and I am very sick and tired of it. I have never liked the show that much to be frank, but I have always loved the more major characters, such as the ones I listed. The ones we have all came to know and love. The ones that prove that "Sesame Street" was always worth watching. You can watch any show about education, but come on muppet education shows? How cool is that for kids? Very.

    Muppetmonster
  19. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    I find that a cop out for several reasons. Ernie is just as popular as Elmo. He was the second, though not as successful, large talking singing toy craze after TME (Sing and Snore Ernie anyone?) and he rose to having his own segments on the show... First, Ernie's show and Tell then JTE... Secondly, ALL those characters appear on the show to this day, AND are marketed as preschool toys. Not just Gund, but now, even Fisher Price has Snuffy stuff!

    Above all else, thirdly, we all have to wake up and remember how old this series is. Some of the performers are gone, some just left the show, some are aging and unable to perform as much as they used to, and some are also working for Disney as their respective Muppet characters.

    We have to remember, Elmo, Zoe, Rosita, and Baby bear all came out of an era where we lost Guy Smiley, Don Music, Placido Flamingo, and all these other characters played by Jim and Richard. And Frank wasn't on the show as much, so we lost a bunch of his characters being performed regularly. And while we always remember those ones that stuck with the show, there was always Monty, Sherri Netherland, Benny Rabbit, Baby Natasha... all these characters are no longer with the show, and they were created to fill in the gaps. Most of them are from the Around the Corner seasons which was trying to find its place not only after a series of unfortunate deaths in the show, but the rise of a certain cheap costume Dinosaur that dumbed down kid's educational TV for years.

    In recent years, thanks in part to Eric Jacobson, we've seen a mark rise in Grover and Bert activity, with David Rudman as Cookie... they both had their own segments too. Even Oscar had one a couple years back. There segments were dropped with the fall of the other segments. if it wasn't for recasting, we wouldn't have half the characters back. look how long it took Guy Smiley to get back on the show.

    I refuse to believe that Baby Bear didn't come a long way. Why, I'd say the character has become better since the 90's, when he was basically a Looney Tunes character with Goldilocks as his foil. Now they paired him up with Telly and gave him a baby sister... and now he's a deeper character. Elmo I do agree with... but that;s because he actually lost his character when he gained popularity. he used to be this little monster kid... now he's a kid that just so happens to be a monster. Even his third person speech patterns were an allusion to his days as a monster.

    The misfortune of it all is in the history of the show, and the current state of kid's educational programming. Remember, SS was designed for kids who couldn't afford preschool, and kids in poorer neighborhoods. Now, roughly everyone can get to preschool and the age focus of the show slipped to prepreschool. And as such, Big Bird used to be the everyman of the series when the kids were older, but now the kids are roughly Elmo's age, and Elmo became the everyman. Then there was the whole Tickle Me fad too.


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