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Why are recent Muppets tries all flops?

Discussion in 'Muppet Headlines' started by Billy R. Hinshaw, Jun 5, 2005.

  1. GregJ

    GregJ Member

    I'm very familiar with the 'Land of Gorch' characters. But they were created specifically for a late-night, adult comedy show.
  2. Skeeter Muppet

    Skeeter Muppet Well-Known Member

    Actually what Scooter said, I think, was that Raquel didn't have to dress up in scanty outfits if she didn't want to.

    To which the gang at the door chorused, "Oh please, please want to!"

  3. count123

    count123 Active Member

    The thing with the muppets is that sure its parody but its also pastiche. Parody is not a 'rip off' as some would think just because they recognize form and style from a preexisting show. The point of parody is to criticize both the culture that it imminated from and our existing/current cultures' reception of the piece.

    I do however, think that the Muppets have had too many movies absde on adaptations recently. AVMMC was great because we saw parody within an overarching story (i.e. the moulin rouge sketch was amazing). I didnt care for the Wonderful life twist but, what made it worth while was the muppet references like Doc Hopper's French Fried Frog Legs, and the statue of Kermit with the touching plaque. The whole film was a story that used parody to tell something great of the muppet characters and not Bob Cratchett or captain Smallet.

    But what stories are left to tell? This may be the real question. They've explained Gonzo. For all purposes, explored Piggy and Kermit marrying. They've done the 'how it all began' thing in TMM. GMC is an original story where they play fictional roles, but at least as themselves. Is this the way to go? Another, kermit as reporter, fozzie as policebear type scandal?

    Of course, we all have our own ideas for possible shows, and some of us, like me, may have been trying to pitch them already. Let me tell you, the doors are made of iron and they've had many coats of rust protectant applied - tears dont effect them.
  4. Kimp the Shrimp

    Kimp the Shrimp Well-Known Member

    we need to brimg the Muppets back to there core show variety show . TMS was great Jim Henson hour would of been as great if not for jims untimely death and Muppets tonight was good i think it is time to put a nightly well done smart show maybe not celleberty driven but a snl like muppets show maybe guest bands maybe some stars i'd love to see tom hanks, christpher walkin or will ferral with the muppets
  5. minor muppetz

    minor muppetz Well-Known Member

    I think that the next movie should have more main characters. The great muppet caper had a lot of main characters. Perhaps the muppets should go on vacation in their next movie, and have almost everybody come. therecould be a main plot involving kermit, miss piggy, fozzie bear, gonzo, rizzo, pepe and scooter, there could be sub-plots involving the electric mayhem, rowlf, johnny fiama, sal, clifford, bunsen and beaker, and there could be running gags involving bean bunny and beauregard.
  6. Kimp the Shrimp

    Kimp the Shrimp Well-Known Member

    i agree that we need to get back to the classic format but with newer charac=cters
  7. Fozzie Bear

    Fozzie Bear Well-Known Member

    Here's my opinion.

    I appreciate all the work of The Muppets.

    However, things are going off in a different direction it seems. I'm the first one to admit that I don't like parodies, but MCC and MTI were pretty darn good versions of those stories. MWoO would have worked if Disney Attorneys hadn't revised the script (and cut 20 minutes, which will go back into the DVD)(this from Jim Hill though).

    I think the use of the music in MFS was okay, and I didn't mind the story at all. I could see that story from all of Gonzo's prior experiences and songs, and it explains a lot--however, he is still a Whatever, because they never said what species or label Gonzo's people are...just that they're from space, so, "Hellooooo, Whatever!" :concern:

    VMX was awesome to me. It was all of Frank Oz's characters' big comeback, and they seemed more like TMS Versions of themselves then than they ever did since Frank began voicing his characters over the phone lines in voice-overs. As a matter of fact, I really LOVE the new performances of his characters because they are more alive than I've seen them in 10+ years, so cheers to Eric and David's work!!!

    As far as focusing, I've always wanted to see a movie that centered JUST ON the characters from Pigs In Space (hence that fan fic I wrote a while back). Introduce more members of the crew and send them into space to face a final foe. A movie based on the individual members of the EM Band and how they came to meet up and ended up buying a church on the side of the road (TMM reference) would be awesome to me. (BTW, will somebody PLEASE get rid of that 80's styled pony tail in Janice's hair????)

    Writing: They need to hire Jerry Juhl back in as at LEAST a father figure for the writers. They need to let him read and approve a script because he is the man responsible for having created the characters' personalities in his scripts to begin with, and the performers furthered that in how they performed his scripts. I will say that what they did to him in MFS was wrong, and I have not been happy with that experience since. Jerry Juhl deserves more credit than he's been given and he deserves to be taken seriously by the Disney Company and fathered-in to take over the final approval of the scripts.

    Music: Paul Williams is still around, and he penned the music for TMM and other productions. Grab him up and use him, Disney! He was around when Jim was and knows what it's all about.

    I think the Muppets need to take a long, hard look back at everything that made them what they were up to the point of Jim's death. I hope they all (writers, performers, everyone) buys the Muppets DVDs due out August 9 (how about THAT for a plug?!) and studies what made the Muppets who they are, and defines the characters and emulate that more.

    I'm confused why someone mentions we need newer characters instead of the ones we all know and love when folks only seem to complain as it were that Pepe gets more screen time, etc. You don't have The Muppets without those characters which originally made the franchise. That's like Mickey Mouse cartoons without Mickey Mouse! LOL!
  8. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    I agree and disagree with what everyone is saying. Firstly, I wouldn't call VMX a flop. I did win the night, didn't it?

    Secondly, I've been an avid opponant of the "Book" films. I did like MTI, but (as I've said millions of times before) the muppets seem to be around the movie, not in it. MCC had a terrible human to Muppet ratio. Kermit was a secondary character, Fozzie was a third-fourth string plot device and if Gonzo and Rizzo hadn't been "Narrators" you could easily forget it was a Muppet Movie. Not to mention EVERY media character from Mickey to Magoo has done a Christmas carol. They even had a Back to the Future (the animated series) Christmas carol for Dickens sake.

    Personally, there were ideas and stuff I liked about OZ. I liked how they decided to follow the book, and not ripoff the MGM movie, and I like how once Dorothy got to OZ the Muppets were just about the only beings there (aside from the WIzard). Of course I didn't like the execution, or the fact they needed a B-List star to be Dorothy, instead of a young unknown.

    VMX and MFS I liked quite a bit. MFS, other than the music, the only real problem was the intense battle over the script. The original draft was much more clever, and funnier, but the end product was pretty good. I absolutely loved the direction they were going in in VMX, just not the way they did it. I feel if the script were more organized, and they didn't have NBC stars plug their shows during it (and eliminated the Crock Hunter refference) it would have been great. I like how they parodied the old christmas specials and cliches, but the song wasn't memorable.

    MCC and MTI Had great songs, though. Oz had forgettable Ashanti pop and 2 pretty decent ditties (The Witch is in the House and Nap Time, though it was mainly an instrumental). If Oz went through a few more script drafts from the Muppet writers (not Disney), we would have had something at least pretty good.
  9. Kimp the Shrimp

    Kimp the Shrimp Well-Known Member

    someone the name is PETE i think that the newer muppets need to florish even muppets we don't even know about or have not been created the grats will be great but i hate to see them be draged through the mud..

    perfect example: i was in a audaince with the Simpsons creater Matt Greoning and James L. Brooks and Matt told a story how he created the Simpsons.
    "He was called by JLB to use is Life in H e l l Chacters as bumbers on the "Tracy Ullman Show" he was sitting in the office sweating then he thought that he did not want to risk is LIH Characters so he drew 5 cruddly lookiing character and named them after his family Lisa, Margret, his Mom Marge and dad Homer he was Bart"

    they became the gratest show in the history of tv

    so you never know i love Kermit and Rowlf ar glued to my comp. literlly but it's time to see what other muppets can do
  10. Fozzie Bear

    Fozzie Bear Well-Known Member

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