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Wocka-Wocka... He's at it again!

Discussion in 'Puppet News' started by Was Once Ernie, Jul 9, 2007.

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  1. MGov

    MGov Well-Known Member

    Wanting the best and not settling for less is not the definition of entitlement. Believing you deserve the best without doing the work, without earning it, is entitlement. As I said earlier, Jim Henson et al, did the creative work. This person selling the puppets on eBay did not. He just blatantly copied what someone else did. You want the best? Don't be lazy. Learn to build your own replicas.

    Yeah, there is a backlash against lightsaber building. George Lucas is a staunch defender of his intellectual properties. If fans want to build their own props and costumes from the Star Wars movies and wear them to fan conventions or (as happened this past January when Lucas was the grand marshall) march in full, homemade Stormtrooper gear in the Rose Parade, he's more than happy to allow it. But try to sell it and you will hear from his lawyers.

    You're starting to sound like Veruca Salt (the character, not the band). There are many Muppet puppets out there that are legally licensed to buy. I have a Kermit that I am very fond of and the Animal I have is great. Just because these aren't "professional" puppets doesn't make them any worse. I didn't get them to be professional puppets. I got them because I like the Muppets. If I want a professional puppet, I'll build it myself.

    Obviously you thought you found a witty turn of the phrase so you included it here and you probably feel very proud of yourself. But I don't feel anyone walking around in the dark and I'm positive no one has bumped into me. I'm not virtuous about the Muppet replicas. I've worked a lot of years in New York and Los Angeles at various levels of the entertainment business, dealing with different kinds of intellectual properties, including my own. When I say It's wrong and illegal to sell these replicas, it's not because I'm virtuous. It's because I'm right.
  2. PMK

    PMK Active Member

    How do you turn a phrase?

    This isn't an issue I'm super passionate about, but it has been fun conversing with those of you who do feel passionately about it. It's great that you have such a love for these characters that you feel a sense of personal responsibility to protect them. It's very honorable and I know that if it were my creations being defended that I would be very thankful.
  3. spcglider

    spcglider Well-Known Member

    And it was still illegal then. We aren't talking about food, water or medical care here. We're talking about a desire for things that is directly tied to a sense of egotistical entitlement.
    You know, that is EXACTLY what every stalker in history uses as an excuse when they are caught.

    The fact remains: Just because you LOVE (or desire) something does NOT give you the right to POSESS it. That's not too hard to grasp, is it?

    Especially when that something is owned, in it's entirety, by someone else. Even if that something is an idea or a likeness or a concept. You simply do not have the right to appropriate it without their permission. How is it that people just cannot understand the property rights of others?
    You just proved that you are willfully ignorant of the larger picture. The door swings BOTH WAYS. What if Disney decided they owned YOUR original character and didn't pay you anything for it? What if they turned it into an animatronic for their theme park and had it talking about the virtues of something you find disgusting? What if they manufactured replicas of it and sold them without giving you a cut? You'd be severely cheesed off, wouldn't you? According to the law, you'd have every right to sue for your property rights.

    The same laws that protect YOU protect Disney as well. Its just that everybody gets all egotistically indignant when Disney enforces their property rights.

    Just because you don't like somebody doesn't mean that you're justified in doing them harm. Got it?

  4. spcglider

    spcglider Well-Known Member

    Hmmm... so how much do you make a year? Got anything cool in your house that I don't have? Maybe I'll stop by sometime and melp myself to your stuff when you're not looking.

    How's THAT sound?

    Better sound just fine, because that's just what you said.

  5. spcglider

    spcglider Well-Known Member

    And if you want them changed, you need to be involved and change them the way they are to be changed, legally.Otherwise you are subject to them like everyone else. Even Disney.

    Really, I am STUNNED at how so many Muppet admirers are completely devoid of understanding the very basic ideas that Jim Henson himself professed through his works. Understanding, fairness, open mindedness, caring, good will, and how not to be selfish. I think if Jim was reading most of these attitudes, he'd be pretty depressed that he'd missed getting his message to so many.

  6. spcglider

    spcglider Well-Known Member

    Then , Telly, you have missed the entire point of this thread.

    It doesn't matter what you, as an individual, think or want. It doesn't matter what any of us thinks or wants. Facts are facts.

    According to the law, making a replica of someone's intellectual property (whether for profit or not) is unlawful. I've said it time and again. That's just THE LAW.

    But I've also said again and again that we aren't talking about hobbyists here. They have been given a "pass" by the holders of the rights... the only ones who CAN do so.

    We are talking about somebody MAKING PROFIT from replicating Muppet character puppets. That's what some people on this forum are doing. We're talking about THEM. Please make the distinction with us.

  7. spcglider

    spcglider Well-Known Member


    What needs to be understood NEXT is that there is a distinction made by many rights holders about this very subject. And THEY are the ONLY ONES who may do so, as THEY are the ones who decide who has infringed on their intellectual property rights.

    Aptly put by WAS ONCE ERNIE:

    "And the other part of your argument that I didn't quote has been answered many times and you continue to choose to ignore it. Copyright holders tend to look the other way at genuine fan activity. There is a difference between that and putting goods up on e-Bay. I don't see why that's so hard for you to understand. That's why we congratulate Jarrod and condemn The Fabricator."

  8. spcglider

    spcglider Well-Known Member

    Gold Star for TELLY! Now, read the post above this one.

  9. spcglider

    spcglider Well-Known Member

    Then how is it that you can have such a callous attitude about someone else's creations?

    I hope that understanding of other's rights comes to you through this. If not, then I hope it comes with emotional maturity. You are already evidencing promise by this post.

    Keep walking this path. It'll be good for you.

  10. Kevin the Frog

    Kevin the Frog Well-Known Member

    In the mp3 trading thread, they are talking about a way to rip the audio from youtube muppet videos and burn them on cd / mp3 player. Everybody get over there and stop them!
  11. spcglider

    spcglider Well-Known Member

    Because if you don't you're ALL hypocrites!

    At least that's what you're inferring, isn't it, Kevin?

    That's been adressed here already. Please read the previous posts.

  12. Telly

    Telly Well-Known Member

    WOO HOO! A gold star! I'm gonna put it on my chart!

    The main problem I'm understanding in this certain thread is why nobody tells people building replicas for their own pleasure to discontinue. As stated by others above...they are still breaking the law in the long run, but yet they get praised. Shouldn't they be told about the law?

    Just trying to treat everyone equally.
  13. KermieBaby47

    KermieBaby47 Well-Known Member

    Friendly quote, no hard feelings intended. Cheers!
  14. Fozzie Bear

    Fozzie Bear Well-Known Member

    That's cute enough. I'm surprised I didn't see it before now! HA HA!

    Doesn't seem the conversations are too happy here, so I'll close the thread since the main idea is figured out, and it's all going into circles anyway.

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