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Your Thoughts: Kermit and Fozzie on The View

Discussion in 'Muppet Appearances' started by Phillip, May 21, 2008.

  1. Super Scooter

    Super Scooter New Member

    Ruahnna,

    Did you see the CW interview with Kermit and Fozzie (there's another thread about it)? I think that was a much better example of how the Kermit and Piggy thing should be.
  2. frogboy4

    frogboy4 Inactive Member

    Pop Culture:
    Family Guy and American Dad have always been hit-or-miss programs and continue to be so. There was a recent Family Guy episode with a dead frog bit that was brilliant. The Simpsons is the show I seldom catch anymore. It's always on in reruns and that diminishes its impact, but hey it has spanned nearly two decades.

    Humor & Writing:
    :) Humor and public tastes evolve and change. The Muppets have been hitting one note mainly and that's Kermit & Piggy. It's a great relationship, but the Muppets have so much more to offer that is forgotten. That's one of the reasons why interviewers ask about her so much. Few people have insight into anything other than that obvious relationship.

    It would be nice, however, when asked if Kermit would offer a different exotic excuse to avoid the issue - one that conflicts with the other interviews of the day. That falls not only on Steve, but also to the writers.

    The Trouble with Piggy:
    :o There have actually been articles and even a particular book that pose the theory of Miss Piggy ruining the Muppets. I do not agree with that, but that feeling is definitely out there. I think it's because when the pig's around she eclipses everything else that's going on. And hey, that's the way it should be when she's around. That's why I think they should hold her back a little more so the other Muppety goodness can show through. She is not responsible for all the Muppets success, but Miss Piggy is very important and has a very strong following.

    Pig Power!
    :mad: She was, at a time, an industry to herself. It is known that when included among other characters in a particular product assortment that she does tend to be a weaker seller. However, she is strong enough to sell her own signature products that other characters could not carry. The power of the pig is not absolute, but very potent when correctly framed.

    My Conclusion:
    It is my wish (that seems to be granted with these Fozzie interviews) to have more classic Muppet characters, like Fozzie, Gonzo, Rowlf and Sam, accompany Kermit for interviews. Maybe they could at least save Piggy for the tail end of segments sometimes. It's refreshing to see the other guys. Eric does a great job with the pig and the bear!
  3. frogboy4

    frogboy4 Inactive Member

    The Muppets are not a fad. Elements of their popularity maybe, but as an entertainment troupe the Muppets have been around for many decades. Alf is okay in my book, but there's no comparing the Muppets to Alf. I don't see why you keep trashing the puppeteers. They do a great job. However, I do feel that Disney could commission some fresh writing for their appearances as they have done with the shorts on Muppets.com. A little more care could be taken to shape these interviews before hand.
  4. Ruahnna

    Ruahnna Well-Known Member

    I wanted to ask/comment on several things but I'm afraid if I start trying to copy and quote I'll just mess up, so let me just ask and anybody who knows the answers can chime in.

    1st question: Piggy ruin the muppets? HAHAHAHAHA! ! Who in their right mind thinks Piggy has ruined the Muppets? If that's in print I want to know who was brave enough to put their moniker on it! Come on--give a source. And sure, I know not everyone likes every character--that's okay. But ruin? Oh, please! What twaddle! She was the superstar they hitched their wagon to--the first break-out star.

    2nd question: I'm going to ask a question, assume I know the answer and then comment. (That way if I'm wrong, you can all say "Nanny nanny boo boo!") Someone mentioned that Piggy didn't always sell as well other characters when they made one of each. I'm going to make two assumptions: Part of this is due to a gender difference in buying patterns and part of this is due to the fact that--of all the Kermit's I have (including the obvious knock-off with webbed hands) Kermit still looks a lot like Kermit. I have all sorts of Piggy merchandise that doesn't look a thing like her. Also, while I have joyfully snuggled with stuffed Gonzo, and a variety of stuffed Kermits (I SOOOO need a Fozzie), I wouldn't dream of snuggling my Piggy dolls. Buy clothes for them? YES! Design and sew clothes for them? Oh, YES, yes. (I even have FRIENDS who buy clothes for my Piggy doll--the latest being a red feather boa). But she is not a toy in the same way. I can't quite explain it, but I know if I hugged Kermit in real life (or Gonzo or Fozzie or Elmo or Grover or Big Bird, for example) they'd hug me back. Piggy might say, "Did I TELL you you could touch me?" It's...she's a diva. She inspires AWE and FEAR, but not snuggledom. So I don't think she makes as good a snuggle toy (unless you're a frog). When it comes to models, well, I respect the hobby and it's meticulous attention to detail and order, but it is a predominately male hobby. (I'm not going all sexist--I'm talking statistics here. This type of collectible just attracts more men than women.) And I think that it is more interesting to collect different versions of Kermit (and Batman) than it is to collect, um, (whispers) girl dolls.

    Um, about the fad comment. I think you are mistaking the use of the word. I think that the muppets might arguably be a part of popular culture--like Star Trek and Batman--but they are not a fad. Bell-bottoms were a fad (thank heavens). Where's the Beef was a fad. Alf was a fad, bless him. Funny and irreverent but a fad, just like, "What chu talkin'about Willis?" The Muppets are one of the few groups who can claim to span several generations not only in popularity but in production of movies. The Muppet Movie was over thirty years ago--the MWoO not so long ago--same characters, um, sortof.

    Someone else commented about how Piggy always steals the show when she's on. It's what diva's do. A perfect example of this is in The Great Muppet Caper, when Piggy ONLY gets to interact with Kermit in a genuine way, while ALL the other muppets get to interact with each other more. Even in the few and brief crowd scenes, Piggy is just with Kermit--like he's her interpreter or something. This is a tremendous example of how hard it is to use a "love interest" in an ensemble show--that's why all of Captain Kirk's women died or left at the end of the show, and why all of the Cartwright boys remained single. The fact that Piggy has remained both a love interest and very much a part of the cast is a testament to her great popularity--even the people who are anti-frog-monogamy have to grant that Kermit is more interesting when she's around. Doubt me? Watch the fight scene in TGMC. Or the scene when they pick Piggy up hitchhiking beside the road in TMM? Or the scene in MFS when Piggy shows gets into a fight with...well, pick someone. Or the scene in Muppet Treasure Island when she arrives on an elephant. Or the scene in MCC when she threatens to deck Mr. Scrooge. Or the scene in TMTM when she and Kermit have a huge knock-down drag-out fight in the middle of Central Park. Or...but I'll spoil all your fun finding your own.

    Yes, yes--I know I've dragged you all kicking and screaming off the main topic, which was the bear and the frog, not the frog and the pig. But we all have to play to our strengths, so I'm playing to mine! Forgive me!
  5. frogboy4

    frogboy4 Inactive Member

    Of course divas are divas and the pig is no exception. When she's around she's the center of attention and I wouldn't have it any other way. That's why I think they should limit her exposure a little bit to give the other Muppets a chance to shine as they do. My point on that is continually getting glossed-over and mistaken for a view I do not have. Please take a note that point because I'm tired of repeating it - that the pig is important and I do enjoy her like I do all the Muppets. Just that less is more with her IMHO.
    :mad: <--- (angry Piggy) He he.

    Here's the book I was referencing.
    Kissing Bill O'Reilly, Roasting Miss Piggy: 100 Things to Love and Hate About TV
    There have been other statements and articles from various people through the years, but this is one I can cite. I probably disagree with everything this dude says - especially the Miss Piggy thing. Heck, the guy likes Bill-O! However a litte bit of her goes a long way. I wouldn't change a thing about her (well maybe that straight flat-ironed hair or the 80s fro she used to have) I just think she deserves a few more spa days while the other characters make some of the television rounds.

    That's right about the Piggy products. The sexism that takes place in any brand's character assortment does work against the pig a little bit too. Henson's licensing department didn't help when they kept insisting her products resemble Barbie. I know this first hand. It's finally changing under Disney.

    :) I still believe the pig is an industry unto herself. No other Muppet besides Kermit has the singular selling power the pig does. I think they could successfully market items such as stationery, pens, dolls, clothing etc with her name and image (as it is supposed to look) in a Signature Miss Piggy Collection in actual Disney Stores.
  6. Ruahnna

    Ruahnna Well-Known Member

    Yay, Jamie! I DO hear what you're saying. I know you aren't saying that you don't like Piggy or don't respect her diva-ness but you are right that she does eclispe, well, everything (even the moon in TMM!) when she is around. That in itself is a powerful point in Kermit's favor when he tries SO HARD not be be smitten with her during The Muppet Show. He's trying to work, poor thing, and she goes floating by (on good days) or storming by (on bad ones) and he's immediately sucked into her orbit. (I ALMOST feel sorry for him!) I guess what I'm saying here is that I believe that that impression is EXACTLY the one that Jim wanted to leave us with--that Kermit is nervous about what commiting to Miss Piggy might mean. And because he is a reliable frog, a dutiful frog, a frog with a show to do (um, sortof) he fights that sort of infatuation. I don't mind to watch him struggle with it--it is great fun, but listening to him now just trash and belittle her is really pretty ugly. Like I said, he can certainly say, "Well, that fire isn't burning so hot these days," or "Miss Piggy and I have always respected each other's talent--I just wish she would respect my personal space!" or "Well, I hate to admit it but Piggy up and left us to go film an infomercial in Japan." There are a million nice-frog ways to be non-committal (as Miss Piggy well knows).

    The other point that I made first off that I wanted to elaborate on--because I think it is important--is that it is not the fault of the puppeteers that they don't know things or can't comment on things. I knew a fellow once who used to play Wolverine at Comic Books show appearances. Nice guy--big muscles--not over-tall. So he really looked good in the suit and he was a convincing X-man. And at conventions and things where he was hired to appear, people of all ages would come bounding up to him and begin to ask him in great detail about things that had happened in the comic book and things that might be going to happen in the comic book. Luckily, he was a fan, so he could often give surprisingly good answers to some questions, but when it came to, "What will happen in Issue #Seventy-Twelve?" he had no idea either! What could he say? What would happen if he just made stuff up?

    "So, Kermit (Steve)--what's this we hear about a new movie possibility for you and the guys?
    Can Kermit say, "Well, we'd LOVE to do it" without having Disney want to censor him? Is he allowed to say, "Well, we hope we'll have something out in the next year or all of our puppeteer friends are going to be unemployed?" What about, "I don't have have any idea what's going to happen." See--we are used to Kermit being in charge, and it is NOT FAIR to blame the talented talent (Steve) for what is basic a bad job of communications from the top down.
    No other group of stars has this problem. Somebody wants to interview Denise Richards (Why, oh why?) then she can talk about what she things and what she's done. Poor Steve--he's not allowed to comment as Kermit and nobody asks Steve. Despite the fact that we don't always get what we want, I will say, Bless 'em for being there. Bless our muppeteers who have worked so hard and long to build consistency (not always possible) in their performances and bring pleasure to lots of fans. May their energy never flag!
  7. The Count

    The Count Moderator Staff Member

    *Walks by whistling theme to Together Again. *Reads all of this. *Gathers knowledge while respecting the differing viewpoints. *Nods and walks away.
    See you down at the... Where's your next appointment Ru? Oh, okay then. *Shrugs a little, knows we'll meet again later.
    *Whistling resumes while walking away to check on other threads.
  8. dwayne1115

    dwayne1115 Well-Known Member

    Wow I think you guys are trying to put to much into this. Personaly I think if you stick with what worked with Kermit and Piggy everything will be ok. We don't need to get all Dr. Phill on there relationship what it is is what it is:sing: they Know how they feel about wach other and sometimes people will not always tell the world how they truly feel about one preson. They will tell you what they want you to hear.
  9. frogboy4

    frogboy4 Inactive Member

    I like the Japan informercial thing. Kermit needles Piggy from time to time, but not all the time as has happened lately. I like how Fozzie seems concerned about him and her. It's cute. I think they need a new approach to the relationship - a new development. The writers need to think of something to revive interest.

    I still like the idea of a Piggy Collection. I always felt she shouldn't have been pegged with the other action figures. I would have liked her to be a mail-away exclusive that included different hair pieces that could slip over her ears. No magnet required. Maybe different body pieces too that her head could be popped on. She could have been a very successful attractive figure but there are many factors that prevented that. If done over again I'm certain there would have been a different take on Piggy figures.

    I am looking forward to what Corgi/MR is going to do with the Piggy poser.
  10. heralde

    heralde Well-Known Member

    Well what's disturbing is that making things "modern" always seems synonymous with conformity and sameness. And that's not what I'd want my kids to learn or what I myself would want to see.
  11. frogboy4

    frogboy4 Inactive Member

    :crazy: He also says Alan Alda ruined M*A*S*H. I agree with you and never cared much for his reviews before he wrote this book. He's just one source I could easily cite and link to.

    :mad: I agree with you about the pig's hair too. Both the 80s fro and the 90s straight hair were likely used because they are easier to style and maintain. But since when is the pig supposed to be low maintenance? I like that her style changes from time to time, but for the most part - bring back the beautiful long wavy hair that curls at the ends. That's her classic look and always should be the stand-by.

    :attitude: I also agree that there should be a better thought-out mythology for the characters behind the scenes. Now that the Muppets are back on track, the writers and performers should create character arcs for all of them until the next project emerges so they'll have something funny and substantive to fall back on for talk show improvisations.
  12. Quesal

    Quesal Active Member

    Shoot! I missed it! Perhaps it'll be on YouTube one of these days.
  13. TheJimHensonHour

    TheJimHensonHour New Member

  14. Super Scooter

    Super Scooter New Member

    Yeah, I loved Miss Piggy's overall loook the best during seasons four and five of The Muppet Show. Now, there was a good lookin' pig! :flirt: I wish they'd try and go back to that look for the whole puppet, especially the hair. Then again, I'm not too fond of most modern hairstyles for women, anyway. I really like wavy, curly hair.
  15. Ruahnna

    Ruahnna Well-Known Member

    Well, Piggy's look reached its pinnacle (if such a thing can be said to have been reached) during the filming of TGMC. The hair. The eyes. The artfully applied blush. Even in prison togs she's gorgeous.

    I think part of the problem with Piggy today--and I mean no disrespect to Eric, who does a lovely job--is that they are trying to keep her from being "larger than life." (If Kermit were here, he could do a snarky fat joke. Let's fast forward.) Piggy was at her best when even JIM didn't know what FRANK was going to do.
  16. Convincing John

    Convincing John Well-Known Member

    Just saw it

    Not bad...way too short, but I loved seeing Fozzie!

    Yeah, it was good to see someone interact with the Muppets comfortably. Whoopi giving Kermit a kiss and Kermit making the "turning into a prince" comment was nice.

    Fozzie was wonderful. Yeah, he knows Statler and Waldorf's names. "The two old guys..." That was the only part I found odd. He could have said "Statler and Waldorf, those two old guys in the theater box..."

    Fozzie's fear of Simon Cowell was so well done. Of course Fozzie would be afraid of him. Fozzie's always nervous to go on stage and has put up with criticism for ages. The main difference is that Statler and Waldorf actually have a heart sometimes. Simon however...

    The whole Kermit/Piggy thing...it comes up every time in an interview even with Fozzie there in this case. It's the big thing people remember about the Muppets.

    I say why not have Kermit admit he likes Piggy, but give a nod to the other characters people might remember? This could work just as well on the View:

    Whoopi: "So how's the relationship between you and Piggy?"

    Kermit: "Oh, well...we like each other and everything, you know. She's got talent. Actually, in one show she did so well, I (small voice) ordered her a dozen roses." (Shrugs)

    Audience: "Awww."

    Kermit: "Well, actually I ended up getting two dozen roses...um...(gulp)"

    Whoopi: "Two dozen?" (gives Kermit a look) What's goin' on, Kerm?"

    Kermit: "Oh no, no no. It's not like that. The first dozen was delivered to the Muppet Theater, but before I could get to the door, Animal thought it was the pizza delivery guy and he uh...ate them."

    Whoopi: "Animal ate Piggy's flowers?"

    Kermit: (nods)"...and the florist. (gulp)."

    (Clips of Animal in action from Season 3 are played).

    Kermit: "See, that's the kind of craziness we put up with on the show. But it was a lot of fun, too..."

    Something like that would work, couldn't it? People would know Animal, wouldn't they?

    If they're having problems with the pig or need new material or whatever, here's an idea: Frank. No, he doesn't perform Piggy anymore. We all know that. But Disney (or whoever the writers are now) need to study his work. The DVDs are out there! Study Piggy and Kermit from the late 70s-early 80s and see what made them work well together.

    Even better would be someone to ask Frank about character development. Ask Frank about Piggy! The writers should ask Frank "Hey, Piggy used to be your character. Any 'Piggy Pointers' you could jot down for us? We could use some help here so she doesn't seem so lame nowadays." Piggy's more complex than the rest of Frank's characters and I think that's part of the "Piggy problem". She's a difficult character to play and many Hollywood writers aren't interested in deeper characters to explore. They want tabloid fodder to chew up and spit out like old gum when the flavor's gone, then reach for a new stick. The Muppets are classic celebrities, they starred and worked with classic celebrities and need to be treated as such.

    I wish that Frank would hold a meeting with all these guys: Muppet writers, producers, Eric, etc. and have a chance to say: "Here's how Piggy should behave, here is what she should say/shouldn't say, her likes/dislikes, her relationship to Kermit (according to her) is this. However, Jim often said this with Kermit. Interviewers will always ask about their relationship. Just have Piggy say this and Kermit say this. And for goodness sakes, when the Muppets do interviews, try to get people who won't either talk down to them or discuss trashy topics. After all, the Muppets are for all ages."

    Frank will probably never put a puppet on his hand again. However, he might not be against giving the new guys pointers.

    Eric did brilliantly with Fozzie in this appearance. It was just too dang short!

    I say to make the View more interesting, it should be hosted by Whoopi, Kermit, Fozzie Gonzo and Barbara Walters (puppeteered by Bill Barretta doing Bobo's voice).:crazy:

    Convincing John
  17. heralde

    heralde Well-Known Member

    What was the "turing into a prince" comment? It's kinda hard to make out. Thanks!
  18. Convincing John

    Convincing John Well-Known Member

    Well, at the beginning of the cameo, Whoopi said "gimmie some sugar" and gave Kermit a kiss. Kermit said "You want me to turn into a prince?" as she leaned over to kiss Fozzie. (It was hard to hear with the other women talking and the audience, but it's there). Check at the 30 second mark on the Youtube link.

    It reminded me of when Kermit said something similar when kissed by Goldie Hawn (and other female celebs) years ago.

    Convincing John
  19. Ilikemuppets

    Ilikemuppets New Member

    Thanks for the interview! Pretty good!
  20. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member


    No no no! She should be a CGI voiced by either Joan Gerber or Tress McNeil


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