Wocka-Wocka... He's at it again!

[MGov]

Whoever said that today's generation is one of entitlement is absolutely correct, but I do not view that as a negative thing. We want the best and will not settle for less.

Wanting the best and not settling for less is not the definition of entitlement. Believing you deserve the best without doing the work, without earning it, is entitlement. As I said earlier, Jim Henson et al, did the creative work. This person selling the puppets on eBay did not. He just blatantly copied what someone else did. You want the best? Don't be lazy. Learn to build your own replicas.

The whole reason companies like MR exist is because people demanded high quality props. Short of stealing a lightsaber off a set or building it yourself (is there such backlash against lightsaber prop building and selling?) there was nowhere else to turn before MR started pumping them out.

Yeah, there is a backlash against lightsaber building. George Lucas is a staunch defender of his intellectual properties. If fans want to build their own props and costumes from the Star Wars movies and wear them to fan conventions or (as happened this past January when Lucas was the grand marshall) march in full, homemade Stormtrooper gear in the Rose Parade, he's more than happy to allow it. But try to sell it and you will hear from his lawyers.

Ever since I was a kid I have wanted my own Muppets puppets.

You're starting to sound like Veruca Salt (the character, not the band). There are many Muppet puppets out there that are legally licensed to buy. I have a Kermit that I am very fond of and the Animal I have is great. Just because these aren't "professional" puppets doesn't make them any worse. I didn't get them to be professional puppets. I got them because I like the Muppets. If I want a professional puppet, I'll build it myself.

It just seems crazy to me that people would rather walk around in the dark, bumping into each other, exclaiming they are the virtuous because they do not support Muppet replicating than own something that looks like something they love.

Obviously you thought you found a witty turn of the phrase so you included it here and you probably feel very proud of yourself. But I don't feel anyone walking around in the dark and I'm positive no one has bumped into me. I'm not virtuous about the Muppet replicas. I've worked a lot of years in New York and Los Angeles at various levels of the entertainment business, dealing with different kinds of intellectual properties, including my own. When I say It's wrong and illegal to sell these replicas, it's not because I'm virtuous. It's because I'm right.

 

[PMK]

Obviously you thought you found a witty turn of the phrase so you included it here and you probably feel very proud of yourself.

How do you turn a phrase?

This isn't an issue I'm super passionate about, but it has been fun conversing with those of you who do feel passionately about it. It's great that you have such a love for these characters that you feel a sense of personal responsibility to protect them. It's very honorable and I know that if it were my creations being defended that I would be very thankful.

 

[spcglider]

I have been. This appears to be a polarizing issue. We either see it as wrong (for whatever reason) or not wrong (for whatever reason). In this instance, wrong equates to criminal. Criminal being something that should cause an eBay auction to be shut down.

Whoever said that today's generation is one of entitlement is absolutely correct, but I do not view that as a negative thing. We want the best and will not settle for less. The whole reason companies like MR exist is because people demanded high quality props. Short of stealing a lightsaber off a set or building it yourself (is there such backlash against lightsaber prop building and selling?) there was nowhere else to turn before MR started pumping them out.

And it was still illegal then. We aren't talking about food, water or medical care here. We're talking about a desire for things that is directly tied to a sense of egotistical entitlement.

Ever since I was a kid I have wanted my own Muppets puppets. If I had the money, I would absolutely buy one of these or commission someone to build me my own. When I saw the Pepe replica, my first thought was "does he sell these?". Master Replicas is making nice poseable Muppets, but these aren't puppets. It just seems crazy to me that people would rather walk around in the dark, bumping into each other, exclaiming they are the virtuous because they do not support Muppet replicating than own something that looks like something they love.

You know, that is EXACTLY what every stalker in history uses as an excuse when they are caught.

The fact remains: Just because you LOVE (or desire) something does NOT give you the right to POSESS it. That's not too hard to grasp, is it?

Especially when that something is owned, in it's entirety, by someone else. Even if that something is an idea or a likeness or a concept. You simply do not have the right to appropriate it without their permission. How is it that people just cannot understand the property rights of others?

Disney is an awfully big company. Do you think they are hurting for cash? I never thought I would see people shedding tears for the financial strain of the Mouse.

You just proved that you are willfully ignorant of the larger picture. The door swings BOTH WAYS. What if Disney decided they owned YOUR original character and didn't pay you anything for it? What if they turned it into an animatronic for their theme park and had it talking about the virtues of something you find disgusting? What if they manufactured replicas of it and sold them without giving you a cut? You'd be severely cheesed off, wouldn't you? According to the law, you'd have every right to sue for your property rights.

The same laws that protect YOU protect Disney as well. Its just that everybody gets all egotistically indignant when Disney enforces their property rights.

Just because you don't like somebody doesn't mean that you're justified in doing them harm. Got it?

-G

 

[spcglider]

Yeah, that is basically what I'm saying. As wrong as that may seem typed out in black and white, I think the majority of people would admit to stealing a loose grape from time to time.

Maybe I'm just a renegade rebel without any sense of right or wrong, but Disney is a conglomerate; I'm not worried about stealing from their penny jar.

Hmmm... so how much do you make a year? Got anything cool in your house that I don't have? Maybe I'll stop by sometime and melp myself to your stuff when you're not looking.

How's THAT sound?

Better sound just fine, because that's just what you said.

-G

 

[spcglider]

Someone wrote those laws. They did not sprout from the ground.

And if you want them changed, you need to be involved and change them the way they are to be changed, legally.Otherwise you are subject to them like everyone else. Even Disney.

Really, I am STUNNED at how so many Muppet admirers are completely devoid of understanding the very basic ideas that Jim Henson himself professed through his works. Understanding, fairness, open mindedness, caring, good will, and how not to be selfish. I think if Jim was reading most of these attitudes, he'd be pretty depressed that he'd missed getting his message to so many.

-G

 

[spcglider]

I think it's kinda funny that people are praising the people who do build replicas for themselves. They're the ones who are being unlawful. Shouldn't we be telling them that what they're doing is just as wrong? Personally, I think some of the their work is beautiful and dead-on!

I still say if they're only charging for materials and their time and not making profit from it, it should be no different than if they build one for themself.

Then , Telly, you have missed the entire point of this thread.

It doesn't matter what you, as an individual, think or want. It doesn't matter what any of us thinks or wants. Facts are facts.

According to the law, making a replica of someone's intellectual property (whether for profit or not) is unlawful. I've said it time and again. That's just THE LAW.

But I've also said again and again that we aren't talking about hobbyists here. They have been given a "pass" by the holders of the rights... the only ones who CAN do so.

We are talking about somebody MAKING PROFIT from replicating Muppet character puppets. That's what some people on this forum are doing. We're talking about THEM. Please make the distinction with us.

-G

 

[spcglider]

Hey spcglider you said

"Your question is irrelavant... because even if you had the skillset to make an unlicensed replica of a Muppet, it would still be technically unlawful for you to do so. So the answer is no."



So, you are saying anyone who makes a replica is breaking the law. Does not matter weather he is learning or just a big fan.

But wrong is wrong who ever makes them then. Even if there is a genorous policy.

ABSOLUTELY CORRECT! HOORAY! SOMEBODY FINALLY GETS THE POINT!

What needs to be understood NEXT is that there is a distinction made by many rights holders about this very subject. And THEY are the ONLY ONES who may do so, as THEY are the ones who decide who has infringed on their intellectual property rights.

Aptly put by WAS ONCE ERNIE:

"And the other part of your argument that I didn't quote has been answered many times and you continue to choose to ignore it. Copyright holders tend to look the other way at genuine fan activity. There is a difference between that and putting goods up on e-Bay. I don't see why that's so hard for you to understand. That's why we congratulate Jarrod and condemn The Fabricator."

-Gordon

 

[spcglider]

You never know, there might be somebody out there who IS willing to willing to charge for only materials and time.

I think the law should apply to EVERYBODY not just certain people. They're making replicas for themselves...they are STILL breaking the law at the end of the day.

Gold Star for TELLY! Now, read the post above this one.

-G

 

[spcglider]

How do you turn a phrase?

This isn't an issue I'm super passionate about, but it has been fun conversing with those of you who do feel passionately about it. It's great that you have such a love for these characters that you feel a sense of personal responsibility to protect them. It's very honorable and I know that if it were my creations being defended that I would be very thankful.

Then how is it that you can have such a callous attitude about someone else's creations?

I hope that understanding of other's rights comes to you through this. If not, then I hope it comes with emotional maturity. You are already evidencing promise by this post.

Keep walking this path. It'll be good for you.

-G

 

[Kevin the Frog]

In the mp3 trading thread, they are talking about a way to rip the audio from youtube muppet videos and burn them on cd / mp3 player. Everybody get over there and stop them!