ATTN: Faux Muppets on eBay

[Fozzie Bear]

MGov,

There is a difference here: Ravagefrackle would probably care if someone cashed in on his original characters, as would I on Muley; however, we're all seemingly discussing what's right or wrong here in a situation that, if SW/MHC/JHC really cared they would deal with this in their own time.

I have someone that would contact an infringer of Muley works for me; likewise, JHC/SW/MHC has someone who will do it for them...when they're ready.

I just don't see SW/MHC/JHC doing anything, so they obviously don't care. Why should we? We're only fans, not owners.

I think these people are doing good replicas, and I wish I had time and talent to do the same things for myself, but I don't think it's necessarily right that they're selling them--but, if SW/MHC/JHC don't care...me either.

 

[spcglider]

I just don't see SW/MHC/JHC doing anything, so they obviously don't care. Why should we? We're only fans, not owners.

I think these people are doing good replicas, and I wish I had time and talent to do the same things for myself, but I don't think it's necessarily right that they're selling them--but, if SW/MHC/JHC don't care...me either.

Yes, but here's the legal rub: SW/MHC/JHC reserve the right to care whenever they feel like it. There's no statute of limitations on copyright infringement. Just because the particular person responsible for activating those intellectual property rights hasn't taken action doesn't negate the law.

Once again, we arrive at the idea that it's okay to break the law as long as the laws aren't being actively enforced.

Is THAT "how the boss would have wanted it"?

I personally don't think so.

-Gordon

 

[Fozzie Bear]

Still, why are all of us here so uptight about what's legal or not? It's not our properties to worry about.

I have just had a thought strike me, though: Where's "Save the Muppets" when we need them? This looks like a job for that movement! HA HA.

 

[spcglider]

Still, why are all of us here so uptight about what's legal or not? It's not our properties to worry about.

I have just had a thought strike me, though: Where's "Save the Muppets" when we need them? This looks like a job for that movement! HA HA.

You know I respect you, but I can't dis-agree with you more.

The reason WHY we care about whether its legal or not is well presented in the golden rule:

"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."

It doesn't matter whether or not someone else would respect OUR individual rights to our own intellectual properties... we should respect theirs. Because we all know it is the right thing to do.

But it is easier to not care. In fact, in this case it is even PLEASURABLE to not care as the results allow us to posess something we have long desired but been denied. One's own Ernie or Elmo or Beaker or what-have-you.

Can we still be "ultimate Muppet fans" and NOT posess unlicensed liknesses of the characters? Yes.

Can we posess unlicensed likenesses of these characters and consider ourselves true fans? Not in my opinion.

-Gordon

 

[Fozzie Bear]

I think you miss the point, really, because the underlying sequence of what we are saying is the same thing, I'm just more laid-back in my response about how I deal with these things as a fan.

You boycott these by saying they're illegal, I boycott them by not buying them. They're replicas, same as a proton pack from Ghostbusters or some Star Trek gear, all of which I don't buy. I doubt anybody from MC is even bidding on replica puppets, either. If I want a replica for myself, I'll make one.

Does my being relaxed by saying that it's not my job to police who does what with these corporate owned characters make me any less a fan? No. Does my owning replicas I made for myself make me any less a fan? No. Are these people who post their puppets they make for themselves to the internet and link photos here at MC breaking the law? Could be. It's all really subjective to who is looking at the situation and how.

Let MHC/JHC/SW do what they want and when they want. They have paralegals--I know they do because I got a letter from one at Henson Assoc. when I was 7 and wrote a letter saying I wanted to do a Muppet Show! LOL!

In the meantime, I appreciate the work someone puts into these things, and I'll say so, but I'm not buying them.

I figure that we as a group are doing our part by posting about these replicas for sale here in the message boards because, as I mentioned earlier (I'm sure) I know for a fact folks from MHC, JHC, and SW are viewing these message boards pretty frequently, because you don't have to be signed on to read what is in these boards. When they see these links in these messages, they'll tend to this all the way they want to when they're ready.

We're not really even disagreeing, Gordon, it's just that I'm more relaxed about it than you might be while basically saying the same thing you are; but, we're talking about multi-million dollar companies who can do something about this when they want to.

 

[Fozzie Bear]

Amicus, thanks for portions of that last message, but some of it was a little inflamatory. It's okay for folks to have a debate about something, but we're really not debating, just saying the same thing in a different way...which is actually kind of funny. I totally understand both points of view--and the point of view from folks who are pro and con on this whole auction thing. It's a decent and diplomatic debate, so there's nothing wrong with it. Just do what I do and if there is a thread I don't appreciate I just ignore it and go to the next thread.

 

[spcglider]

I think you miss the point, really, because the underlying sequence of what we are saying is the same thing, I'm just more laid-back in my response about how I deal with these things as a fan.

You boycott these by saying they're illegal, I boycott them by not buying them.

Actually, I boycott them by not buying them as well. The difference is that I'm attempting to alert other people to the fact that it is illegal.

They're replicas, same as a proton pack from Ghostbusters or some Star Trek gear, all of which I don't buy. I doubt anybody from MC is even bidding on replica puppets, either. If I want a replica for myself, I'll make one.

You're absolutely right. I built my own Ghostbuster Proton Pack. I don't sell them. That's legal. Its when you start trying to make money from the replica that you're treading on legal toes.

Does my being relaxed by saying that it's not my job to police who does what with these corporate owned characters make me any less a fan? No. Does my owning replicas I made for myself make me any less a fan? No. Are these people who post their puppets they make for themselves to the internet and link photos here at MC breaking the law? Could be. It's all really subjective to who is looking at the situation and how.

Those are all situations that are perfectly fine. I have no problem with them (and neither does the law). The comparison doesn't apply. What we're talking about is someone making unlicenced replicas (one or more than one) and making them available for sale (from a website or eBay, etc.). Its the selling part that breaks the law. Unless you're taking your own, private Kermit puppet replica and making unsavory films with it and distributing them. Then you got problems too.

We're not really even disagreeing, Gordon, it's just that I'm more relaxed about it than you might be while basically saying the same thing you are; but, we're talking about multi-million dollar companies who can do something about this when they want to.

Absolutely true again. However, ignorance of the law is no defense. The purpose of my posts is two-fold: Yes, I'm advocating for a company that really doesn't need my help in doing so, but I am also trying to bring to light activities that could potentially harm THIS community.

If, for some unlikely reason, MHC, SW, or any other Muppet licensee decided to interpret the laid-back position about this issue as Muppet Central actually advocating infringement of the intellectual property laws, Muppet Central could get the kibosh before you could whistle "Rainbow Connection". You said it yourself, they have lawyers. And its the lawyers that can rain down the evil poo-storm when they think you're getting a little too familiar with their client's property.

Once agian, unlikely, but this IS the internet and stranger things have happened.

And just because other studios have chosen to turn a blind eye to prop replica hobbyists doesn't make a true precedent and doesn't make that attitude universal. And simply because its been the prevailing attitude for months or even years doesn't provide protection either.

We're all playing in someone else's sandbox with someone else's toys. We should respect them.

-G

 

[Fozzie Bear]

Like I said, we say the same thing, just in a different way. Rock on.

PM me about your proton pack. Did you use the Norm Gagnon plans when you made your's? Mine is made of just all kinds of junk I could find, but it works! On film and photography. Would like a better one, though. There are some prop builders in TX whose have lights and sounds and the clicking tip on the neutrona wand. I want one of those SOOO badly.

 

[Pino]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4827962924&ssPageName=MERCOSI_VI_ROSI_PR4_PCN_BIX
Like here is a bad Elmo Replica.... The hair looks awfull.. and the eyes are not painted.. Further it looks very nice though!

 

[rtgentry]

oh no not again....