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Bert and Ernie Gay Rumor: Settled

Discussion in 'Sesame Street' started by Fozzie Bear, Jan 30, 2010.

  1. D'Snowth

    D'Snowth Well-Known Member

    Of course then again, that's the magical thing about Muppets: ours is not to question why, lol. It doesn't matter how old they are, whether they're kids or adults, whether they're related or just friends or just roommates, etc, they're just Ernie and Bert, and they are what they are.
  2. CensoredAlso

    CensoredAlso Well-Known Member

    You're right, O is for over analyzing, lol.
  3. Sgt Floyd

    Sgt Floyd Well-Known Member

    I find it disturbing how these days, a show cannot have two dudes who are either roomates or really good friends without people saying they are gay and/or should get married. I never thought of them as gay, just really good friends who are roomates. People read way too much into relationships. Its like saying that every guy who roomed with another guy in college are gay at this point.

    (I want to point out that I do support gay rights...I am just baffled by how many characters people accuse of being gay when its obvious they are not or have been confirmed to not be)
  4. RedPiggy

    RedPiggy Well-Known Member

    I don't see them as gay. I just love thinking of the possibility.
  5. D'Snowth

    D'Snowth Well-Known Member

    One "problem" is today we're at a point where we're FORCED to include every single possible ethnicity, sexuality, creed, background, all but religion in every single new show, movie, mini-series, etc.

    Now, I'm all for being all-inclusive myself, but to the point where it's forced (and I mean forced) just to make sure no group is offended is just another example of how politically correct this society has become; I believe in this day and age, it's actually an FCC regulation that each new prime-time series include at least one African-American regular and at least one Mexican-American regular, otherwise, the show will be considered "racist" and "exclusive".

    As for sexuality on television, that's more-or-less a gimmick to boost ratings. Seriously. Every single new show on television these days has at least one episode where two of the hot female leads will make out with each other for nothinbg more than the sake of having the ratings sky-rocket, because let's face it, the television market is mostly male-dominated, and there's nothing better than a man likes to see than two hot dames swapping spit. I say sarcastically.

    But it's true, we really have gotten to a point where two guys can't be pallin' around with each other without somehow giving off the impression that they're gay, but that's because things are different than, say, 40 years ago, when people DIDN'T come out of the closet, because gays weren't as accepted back then as they are now... I know sadly that in some parts, people still don't accept gays, but you have to admit, a lot more people do accept them these days than they did in the old days. And sometimes it's hard to tell as well, because the stereotype that all gay men dress and speak effeminitly doesn't apply to all gay men in real life, there's a surprising number of men out there whom you never would have guessed were gay, like David Ogden Stier (who came out a couple of years ago).

    I hope what I said made sense, I get the feeling I said something wrong in there somewhere, but I hope I didn't...
  6. dwmckim

    dwmckim Well-Known Member

    People do read too much into friendships between males. Even if it's two gay men, other people have a tendency to want to place them together even if they're not or don't care to be (even if they're good friends)
  7. RedPiggy

    RedPiggy Well-Known Member

    Heck, I'm single, and that fact alone makes imaginations go WILD. :)
  8. frogboy4

    frogboy4 Inactive Member

    I will admit that if people see me out with another guy friend they automatically think we're dating. Sometimes event he fella I'm out with thinks that too!

    As for Bert & Ernie's status. It does bother me that people claim the characters definitely aren't gay. I kind of dig that fact that we really don't know for certain. Sesame Workshop can say one thing, Frank Oz can say another. Ultimately it's in the eye of the beholder and that's where it should stay in this frogboy's opinion.

    There's a fantastic article (where i am quoted) that shares my thoughts here.
  9. beaker

    beaker Well-Known Member

    It had long been known amongst Jim Henson associates and performers that Kermit Love was gay, but a few years ago it got picked up:

    He lived to be 91, which is pretty amazing. Forget he helped design most of the main Sesame characters.
  10. beaker

    beaker Well-Known Member

    I keep forgetting E and B are suppose to vaguely be early college aged "kids".
    I think the main issue I like many people have is forced retconning.

    I do like how the Rudd/Rogen/Hill/Cera/Eisenberg films have made it ok to be openly sensitive; for too long males have been forced to think they can't be expressive or sensitive

    Studying film as long as I have, I noticed there was a celebration of gay characters even when it wasn't explicitly stated. The Celluloid Closet documentary kind of goes over this, but if you look at Kenneth Williams in the Carry On films(like Carry On Cruising)
    it almost seems like a celebration of gayness(despite most the plots revolving around with middle aged women trying to win the hearts of middle aged men and vice versa) However Williams lived in a time when being gay was not just taboo but criminal, and his personal diaries and confidants reveal a tortured man who was never comfortable being who he was, eventually overdosing.

    I think it'd be good for Sesame Street to have a maybe older gay couple in their mid 30's or 40's who pop on here and there. Some have suggested Mr Noodle was the first "gay Sesame character", but the late Jeters sexuality of course was never mentioned.
  11. RedPiggy

    RedPiggy Well-Known Member

    I didn't realize it was ever mentioned (except for "funny uncles" or whatever). And then I saw The Children's Hour with Audrey Hepburn and I was like O_O "OMG ... that was ... actually worth watching!" For those that don't know, imagine The Crucible but with gay themes (I guess you'd have to know The Crucible, too, huh? It's a witch hunt story ... literally and figuratively).
  12. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    Though, PeeWee was attracted to Miss Yvonne. At least, that's what I remember.

    Though, the other thing is there is no way Grover can be under the age of 16 to have all those jobs. Ours is not to question why and try to explain everything. We like the idea of origins and explanations, but they ruin the magic. I'm gonna have to side with John K and what he said about the Chipmunks... it was funnier and wackier when they didn't explain why a grown man had 4 foot talking Chipmunks living with him. Some explanations make things better and more dramatic (Life and Times of Scrooge McDuck), some explanations just take the fun out of something. Muppets don't NEED explanation. Look what happened when they said "Gonzo's an alien." Even the Muppeteers themselves denounce it.

    To me, at worst Ernie and Bert are brothers who were somehow abandoned by their mother, leaving Bert to grow up fast to take care of his little brother Ernie, who is stuck in a phase of childhood to ease the pain and...

    YEEECHHHH!!! That's too depressing. Forget I ever said that. Bleh.

    Yeah, and we have to buy big old gas guzzling macho cars, or they question your sexuality. And if they didn't, they wouldn't sell big old gas guzzling macho cars.
    There is so much engrained in the male brain/male DNA that goes to extremes to assert their masculinity. That's one of the reasons for so much gang violence. because the only male role models are other gang members. Someone has to go out there and say that it's okay not to be Rambo.
  13. CensoredAlso

    CensoredAlso Well-Known Member

    They talked about this on TP. Sometimes Grover's an adult with a job, other times (mainly in the books), he's a kid going to Pre-school, lol.

    I saw that documentary at The Paley Center. Fascinating look at that aspect of film history. People don't realize that there were gay characters even in the silent film days. Everyone just assumes "they didn't do that back then."
  14. D'Snowth

    D'Snowth Well-Known Member

    BUT, in Pee-wee's Big Adventure, he wanted to avoid any kind of advances Dottie (E.G. Daily) made towards him, because of "cooties"... plus, there was Paul Reuben's scandal several years ago when he was caught gratifying himself in an adult movie theater, which we all know that stereotype (post the famous Seinfeld episode, that is), that if you do THAT, you MUST be gay. Of course, there's actually a Christian-based study on the subject that suggests if you do THAT, then God sees you as being very lonely, and need to find that someone you're meant to marry.
  15. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    I don't want to talk about that, but that's why religion and science are incompatible in very specific instances. Marriage is NOT for everyone. That's why so many of them end in divorce. And finding a woman to pair up with is easier said than done. Finding anyone to pair up with is easier said than done. But getting caught in a porno theater ...uh... well, that's what home video is for and why theatrical stuff died out. Thank Frog his career bounced back from that.

    But that was his real life persona. Pee Wee was a character the same way that the Blues Brothers were characters that were played by someone. Plus, the movie seems to be sort of different from the TV show. I mean, Chairy and all the rest weren't there.
  16. D'Snowth

    D'Snowth Well-Known Member

    Well, the TV show came after the movie, so, yeah.
  17. CensoredAlso

    CensoredAlso Well-Known Member

    Yeah but in the cirucs movie, he's engaged to one girl at the beginning and then ends up with a different girl at the end, lol.
  18. beaker

    beaker Well-Known Member

    I've always felt closer to the Pee Wee/Ernest/Big Bang Theory/Depp in Pirates/Jon Cryer side of un-masculinity which some may confuse with being gay(I say well if I was born to like guys I'd be open about it, I just happened to be programmed to like girls who want nothing of it!) So when I get talked into going with friends or coworkers to bro(word for alpha males I guess) culture dance clubs or shows, I feel very uncomfortable. And not just because I dont have big arms or a big chest. But these guys see women as nothing but empty vessels of conquest, have to ALWAYS exude their alpha male tough guy side("hey, what, you wanna go some?"), etc Sadly way too many servile women are programmed to exclusively fawn over that. So again, thank GOODNESS for Cera, Eisenberg and Hill. But yeah tough guy male culture is color blind. I see and sometimes run into alpha male jerks that are white, hispanic, indian, black, persian, arab, russian/ukrainian/eastern european, southeast asian. They all act the same
  19. beaker

    beaker Well-Known Member

    Some people confuse asexuality like behavior with being gay. Like the character of Sheldon on Big Bang Theory, or Pee Wee for instance. Bert, Ernie and Grover represent that sort of innocent asexuality, while The Count, Pepe, etc typify womanizing horn-doggedness.

    It's truly sad Paul Ruebens career was destroyed from that strange event. I don't think he ever bounced back career wise, other than the public came back to really appreciate what had been lost and support his current ventures(Saw the new HBO broadway special, such an interesting time warp into vintage pee wee) I liked him in Blow, and wish he had done more drama and comedy roles. He's a bit old now, though he still rocks the Pee Wee thing pretty well still.

    One issue is that companies have used characters being gay as merely a punchline, a schtick. Smithers on the Simpsons, Roger the alien on American Dad. It's just a sight gag to them. And while Modern Family's gay couple often involves ruses revolving around some of that, they're treated like any other dysfunctional couple on the show. Networks have tried this before, like John Goodman in Normal Ohio. But often gay characters are treated as a zippy one liner charactiture
  20. D'Snowth

    D'Snowth Well-Known Member

    When was Ernest ever perceived as gay? In the commercials, he's got a wife whose refered to, but never seen (Edna), plus, in just about all of his movies, he's got a thing for the leading lady.

    But you know, watching classic Looney Tunes today, I'm reminded of something else that's been a source of comedy for eons: cross-dressing. How many times has Bugs fooled Elmer by dressing up as a lady, that Elmer instantly has the hots for? And for what? Comedy, pure and simple. In fact, a famous comedian of yesteryears tried to get a discharge from the Navy by running around dressed as a WAVE to make people think he was crazy (which inspired the character of Corporal Klinger on M*A*S*H, who ran around in dresses toget out of the Army). What do people of today have to say about that one?

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