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Changes that you actually liked

Discussion in 'Sesame Street' started by Drtooth, Nov 20, 2007.

  1. SSLFan

    SSLFan Well-Known Member

    Hehe...what if Cookie turned orange from eating alot of carrots?(although it's not possible).:crazy:
  2. heralde

    heralde Well-Known Member

    Eh, I think that would be amusing, hehe.
  3. MrsPepper

    MrsPepper Active Member

    Two things:

    1) It actually is possible to turn a bit orange from eating so many carrots. It happened to a friend of mine when she was a baby because it's one of the few things she would eat.

    2) If Cookie Monster turned orange it would further that awful rumour about him becoming the Veggie Monster, which everyone I run into seems to think is true (and I explain for about half an hour everything wrong with what they just said to me! :eek: )

    And it would just bee too much for me to handle. :p :D
  4. heralde

    heralde Well-Known Member

    On the other hand, if that did happen, it might convince Cookie that what's needed here is balance, and not a total ban on junk food. ;)
  5. MrsPepper

    MrsPepper Active Member

    That's an interesting concept, but I totally disagree! lol. Seems we do that a lot, eh? Just thinking out loud here but...

    I really hate it when they try to "teach" muppets things. Muppets don't learn. They really don't evolve or gain worldly knowledge. And I'm not talking about a character changing over time, like Gonzo. In a plot, they really can't learn lessons, it's just not in the nature. The character has to be simplified to a point that the children immediately understand what the character is supposed to be like. They are very two-dimensional in nature.

    Why else would Jim Hawkins be a human in Muppet Treasure Island instead of a muppet? Because the story is about Jim growing up and learning, and it would seem really inauthentic with a muppet.

    So please stop trying to teach Cookie Monster things! I really think that children get it. I don't think he needs to turn orange in order for them to understand! ;)
  6. heralde

    heralde Well-Known Member

    Lol, yeah sometimes we disagree, but that's OK. It's more interesting than always saying "Yes I agree!" ;)

    And I do get what you mean about characters learning things. If characters like the Muppets (or many other fictional characters) eventually, completely, totally learned their lesson, the show would have to end. There would be no more. You can't keep a show going with anti climatic falling action.

    If they do learn anything drastic, it would have to be for the duration of that episode and then the character would have to be able to bounce back to normal the following day. Even if they have taken on new information, they'd still need to be the same basic character. And actually real people are like that too. Even when something dramatic happens to us, we are able to still act normally the next day (while still keeping the lesson in our thoughts).
  7. MrsPepper

    MrsPepper Active Member

    Yeah, it's just not in their nature to learn. They're like cartoon characters. They don't grow up, they don't get haircuts, they just sort of exist in one mode.


    Bingo! Fraggle Rock is a good example. Quite often they have little lessons to learn, but they are not dramatic, character-changing lessons. They're like morals. But you can't change the essence of the being, it just doesn't work that way.
  8. frogboy4

    frogboy4 Inactive Member

    I still like the idea of giving Cookie a Veggie friend to play off of. That solves the problem right there and incorporates the information in a traditional Sesame fashion. And they can share their favorite snacks with each other. Cookie Monster is an extreme. He was never meant to teach moderation on his own.

    What do you guys think about (seriously) sending Elmo on a trip around the world to be edited into the Sesame Elmo's World segments? Upon reflection, I think the Workshop would just make it an all new special to increase Elmo exposure.

    :( I miss Bert because he's hardly around. I mean, yeah, he's still there but barely these days. Most of the characters are still around, there's just a fuzzy factor that keeps pushing them out of frame. :grouchy:

    A factor that has very little to say, but says it in third person and very loud and high-pitched. I like the little guy, but isn't the Elmo-centered Sesame over yet? I like seeing him all quiet on the stairs in the background of Muppet Family Christmas! He's much cuter that way. ;)
  9. heralde

    heralde Well-Known Member

    It's certainly an intriguing idea. It would certainly give his talks more substance. For me, whatever it is, it would really depend on the writing. If they are playing down to kids or not.

    Yeah it's a problem that all of the Muppet projects have had for awhile. Their core group that made them successful was broken, and it's extremely hard to bounce back from that. Plus, I think there's a conspiracy in society to just erase anything old, despite quality and continued demand.

    I saw an episode that featured Elmo from the early '90s recently. He was very funny, cute even! Completely different from the Elmo's World segments now.
  10. MrsPepper

    MrsPepper Active Member

    That is a really good idea! You're right, he is an extreme. He is one dimensional. His character shouldn't be trying to teach things like that all by his lonesome. If he had a buddy, the difference would be very plainly visible.
  11. muppet maniac

    muppet maniac Well-Known Member

    like Zoe. She's a fun addition to the show and has a softer touch engaging the viewer than her more heavy-handed red friend. I haven't seen much Abby, but I feel she is meant to be marketed toward kids who like Dora the Explorer. Not sure how I feel about that, but the puppet translates beautifully into products (and balloons).

    I like Telly. Yeah, he kinda started out creepy, but to me he's like a mixture of Boober Fraggle, Gonzo the Great, a bit of Snuffy's sympathetic demeanor and also an interesting monster in his own right.

    I like that while the street appears tucked-away, it doesn't have the claustrophobic feel it began to acquire. I really feel the characters aren't as limited as to where they can go.
    ___________________________________________

    Things I don't like:

    Elmo. You know what they should do? Make Elmo's World an actual World experience. Send him everywhere to do kind of "Traveling Matt" sort of reports on the space outside of Sesame Street. This creates an actual reason for the segments other than empty viewing calories for the kids viewing him. It also keeps him off the street segments.

    Because it's not just Elmo's world, it's also his street, his products and his Countdown to Christmas. Let's give him a one way ticket around the world so kids can actually learn something. Hey, maybe he can go to India and work for The Gap! Only kidding! I really see a good, healthy opportunity.

    Another thing...I agree with the healthy eating habits thing, but with Cookie Monster? Come on! They should have found a better way to deal with that. What's next? The term "monster" is too scary for kids resulting in Cookie Monster being dubbed the Veggie Creature! You know, what they should have done is make a Veggie Creature cousin of Cookie's to show contrast.

    Also, I miss Bert.


    (Just thinking about all this for a moment).

    Okay---

    I honestly don't like Elmo, but I don't hate him either. But I DO know that it's the endless commercialism that I really can't stand. I mean, do we really need more "Tickle-Me' this and "Hokey Pokey" that and...Potty Time? What the What? Remember the big "Tickle-Me" craze years years ago? I remember it too, and even to this day, I think: Why? :attitude:

    Okay, that being said, here's some of my other gripes about SS:

    -The big change that started with the 36th Season, when they devoted a whole chunk (really, a whole BIG chunk of it) to healthy eating. Come on, it's "Sesame Street", not "The Nutrition Hour", or "Nutrition Street".

    -Two words: Abby Cadabby.

    And about the Cookie Monster thing: Long ago, rumors have been going around that the furry googly eyed fellow was going to give up his favorite foods for some healthier alternatives soon after a press kit for Season 36 was put up online, which mentioned the possibility of that sudden change happening, which was a song entitled "A Cookie Is a Sometimes Food"

    Of course, if anyone's actually watched the whole season then, they would have seen that CM had been eating nothing but...COOKIES---and not a brocoli in sight. Plus the song was just a one-shot bit, and had nothing to do with the character being "changed". The overall lesson in this: don't listen to every rumor that's floating around the internet...unless you have a very good source.
  12. SSLFan

    SSLFan Well-Known Member

    What's wrong with Abby?
  13. Muppet dude

    Muppet dude Active Member

    The way they were trying to put Abby Cadabby in each episodes as possible this season reminds me of how in Season 4 (1972) they were trying to put Count von Count in as many material as possible. Whether it was meeting other Muppets behind the brick wall, in his castle, and there was even a Muppet and Kid Moment with him and a Sesame Street News Flash featuring him, all in the same season! And NOW look at him!
  14. bunny

    bunny New Member

    The best addition is Little Murray Sparkles!
    The worse...don't see him around much anymore!
  15. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    Rewatching Old School vol 1 and starting vol 2, I remembered some other things I like not being around anymore.

    Sketch Repetition- In the older episodes, a skit was shown 2 times (or more!) in an episode. Now, I know that it's supposed to mimick seeing the same commercial for the same product multiple times during a show, but to me, it's not fun to sit throught the same joke twice in one sitting. It's a nice little experiment, but it really throws off Comedy.

    The old comedy duos- Yeah, they can be funny, and stu8ff. I liked Buddy and Jim... but they really seemed like a place filler (seemed like) for new muppet characters. I recall what one reviewer called the skit, a living Polish Joke (as that was written in the 70's, when people hated Poland for no apparent reason), and it really seemed like it. I didn't like Larry and Phyllis, however. One Grunting, and one making annoying high pitched Beeps...? I mean, I could care less to see subsequant ones. Plus, well.... Muppets are much funnier anyway.


    Sketch Repetition- In the older episodes, a skit was shown 2 times (or more!) in an episode. Now, I know that it's supposed to mimick seeing the same commercial for the same product multiple times during a show, but to me, it's not fun to sit throught the same joke twice in one sitting. It's a nice little experiment, but it really throws off Comedy.

    See what I mean? To do that joke justice, I would have had to make a double post, but I'll spare the moderators that one.
  16. MJTaylor

    MJTaylor Member

    Two changes I liked involved Snuffy finally being seen by the grown-ups. I too felt compassion for Big Bird when all the grown-ups failed to believe him when he was telling the truth. As DrTooth says, BB is more likable than Coyote or Dr. Bellows.
    I also liked Around The Corner and was sorry to see it go. It went the same time Elmo's World started. IMHO, SS jumped the shark at that point, but I feel the last season is the best they have done for quite a while so maybe it has jumped back.
  17. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    To me, around the corner was basically the struggling to find a voice when multiple talents either passed on or left the show. Even Dave Golez was a part of that period briefly, to fill the gaps the some of the performers left behind. By the time Elmo became popular, and EW started up, they found their voice and moved to a more classic sense (classical, meaning they focused on the main street). A lot of what went down related to the fact that they had trouble coming up with newer characters that would stick. Once they got Elmo-centric, they gave up on most of the Furry Arms characters.
  18. Muppet dude

    Muppet dude Active Member

    The only Furry Arms character that survived was Benny Rabbit. But that might be because he debuted in 1991, two years before "Around the Corner" came along. He wasn't even a bellhop then, but his personality, complete with "Don't call me Bunny! The name's Benny!" was there back in 1991. I recall seeing Benny in the "Elmo's World" segment about Hats, and he and a bunch of look-alikes were in a "Trash Gordon" skit.
  19. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    Natasha, humphry and Ingrid seemed to come in and out some times. Actually, not so much Ingrid, but 2 seasons back, Humphry was an anchor for Monster on the Spot news.
  20. Convincing John

    Convincing John Well-Known Member

    Hey, I'm all for that as long as it's by plane.

    (Walks into cargo hold and picks up a caged crate with the label MONSTER)

    Me: "All out for Groom Lake, Nevada!"
    Elmo: "Oh, yaaaaay! Elmo's plane is landing!"
    Me: "The plane? No, the plane lands on Sesame Street." (pulls open door and grabs crate) "You land in Nevada!"
    Elmo: "AAAAAhhhhhhhhh!"

    I remember something Frank Oz said once about the Muppets in general. People asked why and how the Muppets just got so popular. To papraphrase Frank "Honestly, I don't know, nobody does. Otherwise everyone would be doing it."

    Any character, really can have their sweet moments. I didn't mind Elmo at all in MFC, or even in his earlier Sesame years when he was like the "little kid on the block" trying to catch up with the older "kids".

    Elmo supporters on another website I've read say that Elmo is not just a repeating, one-note, permanently happy, giggling thing. 'Just look at that sketch he did on hair and skin with Whoopi Goldberg!'

    True. I've seen the sketch, and in this context, Elmo works. It's a cute little three minute bit and I like it:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cINhHw8YAO4

    There's a lot teaching kids in this bit:
    --differences between hair and fur
    --what skin is
    --how any kind of skin can be pretty
    --self acceptance and pride (I like my hair and my skin)
    --(and as always with Sesame) people and monsters who look different can be friends

    And perhaps this sketch's strongest attribute:

    This bit doesn't talk down to kids. It explains the material intelligently and simple enough for kids to get, yet doesn't talk down to them.

    But this is just one sketch. Just one. Yeah, there are some more Elmo bits out there that are chock full of lessons, a little humor and supported by good writing, talent, and even sometimes a celebrity (as seen here).

    I've seen Elmo's World (try to) teach the concept of "skin". It takes 20 minutes to cover the same material Elmo and Whoopi covered in 3 minutes. Heck, there was more substance in the clip you just saw than in so much of what Elmo's World is.

    Can someone please tell me what kids learn from "let's ask a baby?" Professionals behind the show are so conscious of showing only educational material and no "filler bits" like seen here:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OcxsrTJ2Dhg

    And yet "let's ask a baby", "the ___ song" (Jingle Bells) and the "Mr./Mr./Ms. Noodle" segments that seem like sped-up versions of Buddy and Jim appear daily...and weekly...and monthly without end.

    Elmo's World could work just as well with an expertly designed environment that engages kids and inspires them. Not with a sloppily drawn background, but a believable, yet surreal sense of imagination. Could SW do this and have it work? Yep. In fact it's been done.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xWdKPgitXE

    Yet again, another Elmo segment that blows "Elmo's World" out of the water with ten times the substance, educational value and fun. It can work when SW wants it to.

    So, to say what I like so far about this season, I would say it would be any piece of material that still has that...power. there have been some. Any song, any performance from any character that can be done in such a short length of time, get a point or lesson across, engage the children without talking down to them, and dare I say make the adults laugh, too.

    It's older than this season, but I really liked "Meal or No Meal". Oh, and Gordon getting run over by an elephant. I used to be a teacher and I can sympathize with him. That's how the kids acted when school got out on Fidays!:batty:

    Convincing John


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