Disney just shot up in awesome points

Well Christ has been so politicized and so polarized and built into an elephant game. Even my devoted Christian friends lament how it's doubtful anyone today can really *know* who Jesus was as there's so many man made things that swirl around his story.

I think I know what happened. Homosexuality in the bible is painted as an almost depraved act, or a weapon of war. We see this with Sodom and Gommorrah. As well with Greek culture. So early on homosexuality is tied to simply a sexual act and not an identity. There are a lot of sinful things considered even within the confines of heterosexual sexuality in the Bible and Christian canon, so I am sure it can be difficult for people to make a modern day interpretation of scripture.

I fully support alternative Christian churches that have female pastors and welcome
gay people. Think about that folks. A Christian church that allows female pastors and gay people. Now that sounds pretty Christian to me, and something even I would have to look into. Because that's a positive message about God's inclusive nature.

Perversion is an issue that arises in both straight and gay people, but unfortunately simply being gay became tied up in the tableaux of perversion.

It's difficult...I think It Gets Better is one of the most wonderful of modern day PSAs, and it can be applied to bullied kids of all kind as well. But when you have so many suicides/attempts and depression amongst gay youth we need something like this

But Dan Savage...man that guy is something else. He has this almost militant, antagonistic nature that makes me wince. I think he does a disservice. MLK didn't win civil rights by making violent statements and calling white people horrible names. If Malcom X had been the face of civil rights, I doubt it would have gone far...as much as I understand the frustration

It is frustrating to see some Republicans marginalize or strip away the rights of gay Americans. But the scorched earth scattershot nature of Savage's polemics is just counter productive. I wonder if any of his media team or friends tells him that.

I agree with a lot of that. Obama's "evolution" has been happening for a long time so it isn't sudden to me. That term has been repeated ad nauseam over the past three years pertaining to this issue. His recent statement, however, that his views had finally evolved in his support of gay marriage did come out of the blue. Either way, it really doesn't help him politically. The President already has the support of most gay voters and this recent stance does not endear him to undecideds. It will strengthen his base, but it will also cost him the majority of swing-votes.

I'm a San Francisco gay supporter of Obama and didn't know about the recent LGBT items sold on his site until reading it in this thread, googling it and finding out that all the links about the topic are from the Fox News website. That's because it's nothing new. These are the same sorts of things available last election cycle and there are also collections for women, African-Americans, Asian-Americans, Hispanic-Americans, nurses and environmentalists. It's really a non-story so that the Fox News people can say "Obama's Gay Party Pack" on the air. Yes, the same people who referred to the First Lady by using the racist term "Baby Mama", characterized the President's fist-bump with her as both a gang and terrorist gesture and shaded his recent change of heart concerning gay marriage with an initial "War on Marriage" headline rather than just report the facts. Now they're making these run-of-the-mill campaign materials an issue. Love it or hate it, it's the same old stuff and Fox News has proven their network to be both racist and homophobic. Nothing new.

Strengthening his base is what he's hoping for. He's concerned that the people who voted for him last time might stay home this time due to being disappointed with his first term. So now's a great time for him to claim to have some big revelation like this. He obviously always supported gay marriage, but remained on the fence during the first election in order to appeal to a broader audience. But now it serves him politically to be open about his support.

Yeah, I don't really see that as a valid concern even if that's what he's doing. One thing about gay people is that we vote. Our votes for him were never really a question. We're planning to turn out in droves to defeat the conservative agenda. That means voting Obama whether he vocally supports gay marriage or not. He already won an enormous victory for us by dismantling DADT. Unfortunately, I think this helps his opposition more than it helps him.

That I can't say. Though I actually think Romney's attempt at a response ended up looking pretty inept and awkward, lol.

Either way, I know I won't be happy with who wins so yeah, this is entertaining for me but not much else.

I hope you're right and this recent development helps Obama. I don't always agree with him, but the social politics of the alternative candidate are very disturbing to me. It would be nice to solve the country's social issues that we focus on universally important matters like health care and the economy.

Being occasionally disturbing is about the only thing the two sides have in common, hehe. They feed into our social issues rather than help, IMO. But yeah I think if we could at least get the economy back on track other things could start falling into place.

Obviously, there's a lot in the bible no sane or moral person (no matter how religious)
would follow.

I have to say I agree with Banannasketch, in that there has been a bit of a strong anti Christian sentiment pushback from the left, whether if they mean it or not.
We must remember that in other countries, Christians are still persecuted.

Here's a recent example of Catholics being more liberal than most liberals: protesting all these nasty conflicts Obama and NATO have been continuing around the world
http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2...gn-headquarters-starting-week-of-protest?lite

Most of the Christians I've met who claim persecution are usually the same ones who use it as an excuse to enforce their beliefs on the rights of others. The United States is statistically over 78% Christian and that number rises to 86% when all the Americas are included. I can't stand intolerance of any sort. However, I have little stomach for a majority crying persecution either. To me that's kind of like the 1% of wealthy Americans crying poverty because they can't afford everything they want.

Overseas is another matter. There's definitely religious persecution there. There's also persecution of gays and anyone who goes against the one narrow view of the state. America's social politics often have that same disturbing notion, but it's nothing compared to areas like Africa or China. It can be downright scary over there.

It's just that no one is really innocent. People are the bullied one day and the next they are the bullies, and then back again. We're all like this. We just like to think it's always the other guy.

I went to a Catholic college and we had group meetings about the then new Iraq war and discussed the Jesuit's Just War Theory which both the students and professors decided the Iraq war did not meet.

Catholics can occasionally be more liberal than other denominations, also for instance in being more open to embracing evolution. But it's always a struggle against the more authoritarian leaders of the Church.

The scary thing is, other than views on sex (that the followers actually disagree with to an extent), the Catholic Church has become pretty lefty. They want the government to be more helpful and mindful of the poor. Heck, the Pope has been denouncing the Middle East Quagmires since Bush was in office. In some cases, they even want a better health care system. But because of the stubborn old school beliefs on gays and birth control (which the majority of Catholic women don't even follow anyway), they side with the same party that they're basically condemning... just because of two little things they disagree with the left about.

But I have to say... you know who's worse than the left to Christians? The Neo-Cons. You know all the nasty thing leftist Atheists say about Christians? They say the same things behind their backs, but at the same time USE them for votes, pretending to give a crap about their morality. The whole "war on Christianity?" That was made up by Neo-Cons to scare the crap out of Christians so they'll vote for them. There was even a time when they were selling Evangelicals the belief that God actually does want them to destroy the planet so the big corporations that run the party/they hold stock for don't have to use a dime to curb their own emissions. neo-Cons don't care about Christianity OR even traditional conservatism. They care about getting as much money as dang possible.

So basically, while the left is infuriatingly passive aggressive and has a lame "better than you" attitude about everything, the Neo-Cons are downright Machiavellian. I'd rather someone up front not like me than have someone use me for their own gain and pretend to be my friend while laughing behind my back.

----------------
My minister friend is fond of quoting the verse which states the hypocrites will wind up in the lowest level of **** next to the murderers and rapists.

Which...in the neocons' case...they are, figuratively...

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Well there is a third thing, which many Catholics actually do follow.

I scolded someone once for being happy that Wal-Mart had the nativity scene on their coupons, lol.

There's been a rash of hate crimes against gay couples lately where I live. Mostly its suspected its gangs targeting what is perceived to be effeminette men to attack and rob them. A teen also committed suicide last month here from jumping off the local mall after what he said was a long amount of anti gay torment at school.

Bullying overall though is a topic that Im glad is finally getting so much attention.
I've heard of so many horror stories regarding all races, genders, classes, etc by mean kids. And teachers completely oblivious or uncaring.

@Jamie: Yeah in parts of the Carribean and Africa, both politicians/preachers/pop singers advocate hunting down and killing gay people. Like in Jamaica, Senegal, Uganda, etc. So called "Christian nations". Thats why I was opposed to the government giving tens of millions ot Uganda, because of their violent anti gay laws.

The Muslim world as well is notoriously bad toward gay people. In Iran they'll just string you up if you're suspected of being gay, and in Egypt they routinely round up and arrest men meeting at singles groups.

I was more referring to Christians being persecuted overseas, as yeah Christians are by far the majority on the US. But I do think attitudes are changing. I will say I feel the frog/pot approach can be better than sudden change. The cover of this week's newsweek Im sure is bound to ruffle a lot of conservative feathers for a number of reasons

I consider myself pro life, but statistics show women of color and just poor/struggling women in general end up going to Planned Parenthood for pap smears, breast exams, OBGYN care in general, and contraception. I fully support all forms of contraception.

The anti abortion crowd never offers ideas or alternatives. It is completely ignorant of them to be against contraception, and then also be anti abortion. Its also ignorant to expect poor women to have nowhere to go for checkups.

<skips over pages of political bickering that I've already read in too many other threads>

I thought this was a very touching video. Thanks, Disney. I'm going to point it out to some friends.

Here's another video from Pixar that was made a year prior to the Disney one. Enjoy!

Statistics are now coming out that Obama's support has diminished some among women voters since his announcement about supporting the idea of gay marriage in this country. I had the feeling this would happen, but I felt it would be the men. Go figure.

My Little Soapbox:

People often bring up marriage being an issue for the states, but is it really? If a couple is married in New York is it not recognized in Tennessee? Marriage is a national issue and it is my belief that gays should have that right. Civil unions are not a step forward. In fact, they're practically meaningless and here are a few reasons why.

• Civil Unions are state run and not nationally recognized. This means that when civilly-united couple moves, their spousal rights do not necessarily travel or move with them.
• Civil Unions do not come with at least 1,138 legal protections of marriage.
• Non-US spouses civilly-united to US citizens are not protected from deportation.
• Civilly-united spouses are not guaranteed hospital visits or a say in life and death matters.
• There is no exemption from estate taxes for civilly-united couples or right to a spouse's pension when they die.
• Social Security benefits upon death, disability or spousal retirement are not guaranteed for civilly-united couples.
• Family health insurance isn’t guaranteed when one spouse is injured or laid off.
• Divorce/dissolution requires citizenship registration in a state that recognizes civil unions.
• Civilly-united couples have no legal protection against discrimination due to the Defense of Marriage Act.
• Although contracts can be drawn up between civilly-united couples in order to retain some rights, third parties are not necessarily required by law to follow them. This means it is possible for estranged family members to make next-of-kin medical decisions and sue for inheritance over the rights of the spouse.

Gay Marriages won't change one thing about "traditional" heterosexual marriages. It won't require churches to perform ceremonies if they disagree with gay marriage just like Catholic churches aren't obligated to perform inter-faith marriages or any ceremony for that matter. Straight kids are not going to grow up wanting to get gay married because it's a legally recognized right. Marriages are not necessarily religious and do not require any authorization or rights from any church.

For those thinking about the economy, well consider how an increase in ceremonies will impact the marriage industry. There is a view from religious radicals that tolerance of gays and their right to marry will open America up to a moral crisis that will expose us to terrorist attacks among other such "smiting," but I encourage those people to realize such horrific attacks are perpetrated by people who hold the same kind of religious radical thinking.

The workplace, the institution of marriage and the world is big enough for all of us. Marriages are no longer about property, sexism or some simple rite of passage. They are about love, commitment and family. I think we all deserve that opportunity. /soapbox