Disney just shot up in awesome points

[beaker]

Alls I know is even though I'm not a fan of hers, I think Miley Cyrus shed some much-needed light on the issue when she said (uber-Conservative) Christians need to re-read the Bible where it says not to be judgemental of other people... and that's exactly what a lot of these uber-Conservative Christians do, they bash gays for simply being gay... heck, they treat gays worse for just being themselves than they do straight people who cheat on their spouses and sleep around with other people, or even murders who killed innocent people for no reason whatsoever.

This is why I believe so many people are turning away from Christ in our times, because a lot of Christians actually paint a poor picture of themselves with their hypocritical actions, it puts people in the mindframe of, "Gee, if loving Christ means I have to hate this group of people for who they are, then I want no part of any of this"... I believe, if I'm not mistaken, that's how Anne Hathaway came to renounce Christianity because she has a gay brother.

Well Christ has been so politicized and so polarized and built into an elephant game. Even my devoted Christian friends lament how it's doubtful anyone today can really *know* who Jesus was as there's so many man made things that swirl around his story.

I think I know what happened. Homosexuality in the bible is painted as an almost depraved act, or a weapon of war. We see this with Sodom and Gommorrah. As well with Greek culture. So early on homosexuality is tied to simply a sexual act and not an identity. There are a lot of sinful things considered even within the confines of heterosexual sexuality in the Bible and Christian canon, so I am sure it can be difficult for people to make a modern day interpretation of scripture.

I fully support alternative Christian churches that have female pastors and welcome
gay people. Think about that folks. A Christian church that allows female pastors and gay people. Now that sounds pretty Christian to me, and something even I would have to look into. Because that's a positive message about God's inclusive nature.

Perversion is an issue that arises in both straight and gay people, but unfortunately simply being gay became tied up in the tableaux of perversion.

 

[beaker]

It's difficult...I think It Gets Better is one of the most wonderful of modern day PSAs, and it can be applied to bullied kids of all kind as well. But when you have so many suicides/attempts and depression amongst gay youth we need something like this

But Dan Savage...man that guy is something else. He has this almost militant, antagonistic nature that makes me wince. I think he does a disservice. MLK didn't win civil rights by making violent statements and calling white people horrible names. If Malcom X had been the face of civil rights, I doubt it would have gone far...as much as I understand the frustration

It is frustrating to see some Republicans marginalize or strip away the rights of gay Americans. But the scorched earth scattershot nature of Savage's polemics is just counter productive. I wonder if any of his media team or friends tells him that.

 

[jvcarroll]

I was raised with the strict belief that homosexuality was this abhorrent lifestyle, a disease and just something very wrong in the particular Christian sect I grew up in.
The "homosexual agenda" spectre was raised a lot. And given the time(coming out of the late 70's and into the 80's) indeed the image was of totally promiscuous New York City gay sex culture and this notion they were trying to indoctrinate kids or something.(of course straight swinger culture was also in full swing)

Flash forward to the 90's, and I realized some of the counselors/teachers/strong and supportive people in my life were lesbians.And some of my favorite actors it turns out were gay.

and then I think it kind of hit me that Gay/Lesbian and transgendered people are just another unique flavor of our colorful American fabric. Just normal, often boring every day people who were born to like a different flavor of icecream than me. Much in the way African Americans contributed such a wide body of amazing priceless work to the arts and cultural fabric of America during the early to latter 20th century, seeing documentaries like The Celluloid Closet made me realize the rich fabric.

I've seen the endless committed love some of these gay and lesbian couples have had...some spanning decades of friendship/romance, and it gives me goosebumps. It's just pure love and respect. It seems like if God exists, he'd be happy to see two people brimming with love in a healthy relationship as opposed to people in angry/bickering relationships or just out sleeping around.

But I also feel Obama's sudden "evolution" feels a bit phony. At least the timing. A couple days after his coming out for gay marriage, his official site debuted a ton of LGBT related merchandise. As well as a lot of smarmy fake liberal commercial messages. I can understand Christian's chagrin at the kind of militant branding going on, as it does feel hollow.

We cannot expect every Jew, Muslim and Christian to overnight have a similar "evolution", nor expect everyone to erase the view of homosexuality as a sin. As unfortunately, to many many people being gay and that identity is tied to sex. Which is unfair, as it's like saying a straight person is all about sex.

So I understand the backlash against the at times militant Christian bashing and in your face name calling...however, I can understand the frustration. Now that it's 2012 and a lot of people realize there's nothing really special or strange about simply being gay if that's how one is, attitudes are changing. And it can be frustrating to see such an aggressive push to ban gay marriage, to strip gay partner benefits, workplace rights, etc. It's terrible, and it's easy to understand people being more aggressive in bashing Christians as a monolithic group. We just often see fire breathed from politicians and the pulpit and have a gut reaction to it.

But man it's difficult to watch that Disney video...even if it was about kids witch freckles or red hair, or speech impedement, it'd be gut churning.

Ok, one more thing...it's natural to want things to move further along, and certainly not backwards like Prop 8 or NC's new law. But compared to so much of the Christian and Islamic world, America has come an incredible way with gay rights. Maybe not to the point of Northern Europe and Israel, but it has come a long way. Just recent polls show the seachange going on.

I think religious faith for those that have it, family, etc will always be an important part of the human story. And Im happy to see gay people being part of that normal every day fabric.

I agree with a lot of that. Obama's "evolution" has been happening for a long time so it isn't sudden to me. That term has been repeated ad nauseam over the past three years pertaining to this issue. His recent statement, however, that his views had finally evolved in his support of gay marriage did come out of the blue. Either way, it really doesn't help him politically. The President already has the support of most gay voters and this recent stance does not endear him to undecideds. It will strengthen his base, but it will also cost him the majority of swing-votes.

I'm a San Francisco gay supporter of Obama and didn't know about the recent LGBT items sold on his site until reading it in this thread, googling it and finding out that all the links about the topic are from the Fox News website. That's because it's nothing new. These are the same sorts of things available last election cycle and there are also collections for women, African-Americans, Asian-Americans, Hispanic-Americans, nurses and environmentalists. It's really a non-story so that the Fox News people can say "Obama's Gay Party Pack" on the air. Yes, the same people who referred to the First Lady by using the racist term "Baby Mama", characterized the President's fist-bump with her as both a gang and terrorist gesture and shaded his recent change of heart concerning gay marriage with an initial "War on Marriage" headline rather than just report the facts. Now they're making these run-of-the-mill campaign materials an issue. Love it or hate it, it's the same old stuff and Fox News has proven their network to be both racist and homophobic. Nothing new.

 

[CensoredAlso]

Either way, it really doesn't help him politically. The President already has the support of most gay voters and this recent stance does not endear him to undecideds. It will strengthen his base, but it will also cost him the majority of swing-votes.

Strengthening his base is what he's hoping for. He's concerned that the people who voted for him last time might stay home this time due to being disappointed with his first term. So now's a great time for him to claim to have some big revelation like this. He obviously always supported gay marriage, but remained on the fence during the first election in order to appeal to a broader audience. But now it serves him politically to be open about his support.

 

[jvcarroll]

Strengthening his base is what he's hoping for. He's concerned that the people who voted for him last time might stay home this time due to being disappointed with his first term. So now's a great time for him to claim to have some big revelation like this.

Yeah, I don't really see that as a valid concern even if that's what he's doing. One thing about gay people is that we vote. Our votes for him were never really a question. We're planning to turn out in droves to defeat the conservative agenda. That means voting Obama whether he vocally supports gay marriage or not. He already won an enormous victory for us by dismantling DADT. Unfortunately, I think this helps his opposition more than it helps him.

 

[CensoredAlso]

Unfortunately, I think this helps his opposition more than it helps him.

That I can't say. Though I actually think Romney's attempt at a response ended up looking pretty inept and awkward, lol.

Either way, I know I won't be happy with who wins so yeah, this is entertaining for me but not much else.

 

[jvcarroll]

That I can't say. Though I actually think Romney's attempt at a response ended up looking pretty inept and awkward, lol.

Either way, I know I won't be happy with who wins so yeah, this is entertaining for me but not much else.

I hope you're right and this recent development helps Obama. I don't always agree with him, but the social politics of the alternative candidate are very disturbing to me. It would be nice to solve the country's social issues that we focus on universally important matters like health care and the economy.

 

[CensoredAlso]

I don't always agree with him, but the social politics of the alternative candidate are very disturbing to me. It would be nice to solve the country's social issues that we focus on universally important matters like health care and the economy.

Being occasionally disturbing is about the only thing the two sides have in common, hehe. They feed into our social issues rather than help, IMO. But yeah I think if we could at least get the economy back on track other things could start falling into place.

 

[beaker]

Obviously, there's a lot in the bible no sane or moral person (no matter how religious)
would follow.

 

[beaker]

I have to say I agree with Banannasketch, in that there has been a bit of a strong anti Christian sentiment pushback from the left, whether if they mean it or not.
We must remember that in other countries, Christians are still persecuted.

Here's a recent example of Catholics being more liberal than most liberals: protesting all these nasty conflicts Obama and NATO have been continuing around the world
http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2...gn-headquarters-starting-week-of-protest?lite