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Elmo Muppeteer Kevin Clash resigns from Sesame Street

Discussion in 'Sesame Street' started by brkndwnbus, Nov 20, 2012.

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  1. muppetlover123

    muppetlover123 Well-Known Member

    this third accuser article goes way too much into detail.... Mr. Tickler really? and playing a "game" called son and dad.... just gross
  2. dwayne1115

    dwayne1115 Well-Known Member

  3. beaker

    beaker Well-Known Member

    I'm not defending what Clash may have done, but people have to come to terms with the fact these allegations may be true. The real deal is the CONTEXT with which these happened. The emotional frame, and really: what were older teens not quite 18 doing on sex chat lines? Regardless, y'all gonna have to confront your feelings on this one. I personally am completely unmoved by these accusers, however "true" they may be. And while I am normally aghast at the very thought of older people seeking out minors, I think Clash should be forgiven and the incidents understood for the time and state of being in which they occurred. Accuser #2 Cecil straight up said he let him think he was 18. Now why was a 40 somethinger seeking out an 18 year old for sex?
    Well, who knows. But we know Jerry Seinfeld and Woody Allen, in their 50's, married 17 year olds. Jerry Lee Lewis married his 13 year old cousin. And heck, R Kelly made a sex tape with a 12 year old(something I feel he should have gone to prison for) and somehow his career couldnt be better.

    Ha, I wish it was the late 80's every day! I may have been 11 years old, but it was truly one of the most magical time periods of my life. 1988-april 1990 was pure bliss to me.
    And actually, late 80's Muppets through the Muppets At Walt Disney World time is my absolute favorite Muppet production period.

    Hehe...Ive met some rather...socially challenged people who were muppet freaks at these events. But you know, I think it's good that the Muppets or geek subjects and related fandom can be a bright anchor for people with severe social difficulties, Aspergers Syndrome, etc. Yes, there is something about the Muppets that may attract emotionally developmentally stunted folks, but I like to think we're all a little awkward and stunted in some ways.
    dwayne1115 likes this.
  4. dwayne1115

    dwayne1115 Well-Known Member

    I mean if this was the target vewiers for Sesame, then I could see a huge problem with this. I mean sure these guys went on a chat line, but you can't tell me that they where honestly looking for "just friends" I mean really.....?
  5. beaker

    beaker Well-Known Member

    Yeah it's pretty bad. Ok I reallllly hope the stuff in the article isn't true

    I can accept the notion Clash thought these guys were of age. But I admit it's very troubling to think he was using alcohol, master-submission psychology, and other strongly coercive means. What's that expression, "better to not know". I wish this scandal never came up. It's been nothing but bad news.
  6. inturnaround

    inturnaround Active Member

    It's incumbent on the adult to be an adult in such a situation.
  7. muppetlover123

    muppetlover123 Well-Known Member

    yeah this kind of freaks me out hope the third one isnt true....scaring me into thinking it is if there is a book about it :confused::grr:
  8. beaker

    beaker Well-Known Member

  9. dwmckim

    dwmckim Well-Known Member

    Noticing some patterns between the various accusers...

    Most notably the various relationships initiated via gay phone/internet chat lines.

    In order to even GO onto such a chat line, the user has to first declare that they are 18 or older. Any relationship anyone going onto such a line enters into if they were indeed under 18 would be entered into under false pretenses with the minor initiating and perpetrating a fraud. They would have been made to first hear or see a statement that even if they are of legal age, anything that occurs via a meetup with someone would be AT THEIR OWN RISK.

    So each of these people are saying Kevin is in the wrong for engaging in a relationship with someone under 18...when they themselves LIED about being of legal age to be on the chat line in question.

    And now years after the fact (after the statute of limitations expired), they're now suddenly deciding they're emotionally damaged and need anywhere from a six to seven dollar figure to make things right?


    These people are all largely taking this battle to the press and they're burying themselves with their own testimonies. There's been no tales of abuse; the details they give either seem to indicate Kevin actually treated them respect or acknowledge that they believe Kevin to be a good guy.

    Here's hoping the judge/jury laughs them out of court and Kevin's lawyers makes mincemeat out of them. I hope Kevin countersues. And wins.

    ETA: I agree Brian handled himself with class and grace dealing with the hack reporter.
  10. CensoredAlso

    CensoredAlso Well-Known Member

    I think you are absolutely right, Melissa. And people really need to be able to separate characters from performers. It's the characters we truly fall in love with. It's the characters we really know. We like to think we know their performers too but in reality they are strangers.

    I know I'm usually the anti-Elmo fan, but in this case I find myself in the odd position of defending him as he seems to be getting lost here. :laugh:

    My favorite headline in all of this has actually been "Hasbro Sticks Up for Elmo."

    See there, they're defending the character. Now yes, this is a big, impersonal toy company hoping their products/profits won't go away, lol. But they are absolutely right. A character is bigger than any performer, writer or TV network. Beloved characters become part of our cultural mythology. They are the potential we all wish we could live up to as imperfect human beings. And that character shouldn't suffer just because one actor might have failed to live up to that potential.
    MelissaY1 and charlietheowl like this.
  11. FellowWLover

    FellowWLover Well-Known Member

    My heart broke when I first heard about this whole thing because I know that, true or not true, these allegations will have an effect on the whole Puppetry community, as it will undoubtedly spark a round of guidelines and procedures that will likely far limit the amount of contact these professionals can have with fans and kids in the future. Those of us who have been in the online community for years all know great stories about young fans who reached out to their heros, have visited sets and have been encouraged and mentored in a magical way... several of them are now professionals in their own right, now working in that same community. I'm afraid accusations such as these (true or not true!) will have a negative unintended consequence... it will become taboo for professionals to have any 'personal contact'- even perfectly innocent- with fans due to the fear that allegations may be made in the future. I've watched this happen in Education, Church & Athletics and although it is important to protect children, it is sad to live in a world where a Kindergarten teacher can't hug a five-year-old, a Priest can't hear unsupervised confessions and a coach can't take the team out for dinner after a win.
    jvcarroll, dwayne1115 and aaronmojo like this.
  12. aaronmojo

    aaronmojo Well-Known Member

    Reading thru these posts, it's disheartening to me how many Muppet fans are so quick to blame the accusers, call them names, refer to them in a derogatory fashion, etc. Elmo will still be around either way - he makes too much money to retire him - and if (or when) they replace the performer, I have a feeling they won't make a big deal out of it, to avoid dredging up this whole issue again.

    Also - dwmckim, there are lots of online chats (or there were back in 2000 which was the tail end of the AOL era) that allowed teenagers to participate. There still are forums for gay teens, but there are strict rules about adults participating and whether they are allowed to contact the teens off-forum (usually that's a big no-no).

    I don't know if Kevin is guilty of anything either way but the fact that three of these guys have come forward leads me to be suspicious. Yeah, they're going after cash, which is sleazy, but that does not make Kevin Clash's alleged actions any LESS sleazy.

    And that whole "convention people are weird" thing? There are hardcore fans of anything who are weird and creepy. Some Muppet fans are just as bad as some comics fans. And I say this as both a cartoonist and as a puppeteer.
  13. D'Snowth

    D'Snowth Well-Known Member

    I still don't comprehend why you and that other guy are actually in sympathy with the accusers to begin with: they each have inconsistencies with their stories, they each pretty much lied about their ages to begin with, they each act like Kevin's resignation is a major accomplishment for them (one even saying it's the "stepping stone he needed" for his own career), one of them claims it took all these years for the trauma to sink in (W T F), etc. If there's truth to these stories or not, it seems clear to a lot of us that these guys are basically looking to extort money from Kevin and try to boost their own careers in the process... and yet, you two are sympathizing with them... I don't get it.
    dwayne1115 likes this.
  14. CensoredAlso

    CensoredAlso Well-Known Member

    I think it's more that they don't want Muppet fandom to overshadow the facts, whatever that turns out to be.
    charlietheowl likes this.
  15. D'Snowth

    D'Snowth Well-Known Member

    Perhaps, but still, there's a lack of credibility to their stories, and considering there's some already-existing criminal background, and again, two of them seem like they're trying to resort to extortion to boost their own careers... it just seems odd, to me, that anybody would side with them on this issue.
  16. CensoredAlso

    CensoredAlso Well-Known Member

    That's why I won't address this part of the issue directly. Anything on either side is gossip at this point. But the thing is, would you be so eager to discredit them if the person they were accusing wasn't someone you cared about?
  17. D'Snowth

    D'Snowth Well-Known Member

    Sure. That whole Christian-Newsom murder trial that just recently made national news? That happened here in my own backyard YEARS ago, and each of those murderers have tried justifying their actions... I don't think you can justify torturing, raping, and killing two individuals for the sake of kicks.

    Or, the whole Treyvon Martin controversy? No doubt in my mind that George Zimmerman shot him because, oh, black teenager in a hoody walking through the neighborhood is automatically suspicious.
  18. MelissaY1

    MelissaY1 Well-Known Member

    Hubert, you're entitled to your opinion, but I have to politely disagree. I believe if someone commits something unspeakable, they should not be forgiven like nothing happened. Maybe you'd feel different if you were a parent of the kids who are claiming they were abused, or if you had a family member who did something truly awful to someone else. I have relatives who have done horrendous things, and sorry myself and other family members don't forgive them.
  19. MelissaY1

    MelissaY1 Well-Known Member

    I agree, Beaker. I too, have spent a lot of money going to conventions and while I haven't really left the NY tri-state area for one yet, if I had the unlimited funds to do so, I definitely would. I would love to go to the San Diego con one day.
  20. MelissaY1

    MelissaY1 Well-Known Member

    LOL, I understand where you're coming from, D'Snowth, and I agree there's a lot of wackos at these things, but I think that's kind of part of the fun, and honestly, when I go to these things I'm on my own agenda seeing different panels/celebs, etc. and I focus on that and really don't associate with the rest of the con goers, mostly because a lot of them are so "out there". Some people genuinely eat, sleep and breathe whatever they're into and I just don't get it. Even as much as I love the Muppets, I'm into all kinds of things and love them all equally, and I know when to turn those obsessions on and off. My boyfriend (now husband) last time we went to the NY Comic Con a few years back, remarked to me that he was so happy I'm not as nuts as some of the other women there walking around in costume, etc. He said he can deal with my interests because I don't go overboard.

    The flip side, is you get to meet and know a lot of cool people if you go to enough of these things too. I've met people just from going to these things now, I'm friendly with some of the vendors, the regular fans who go, etc. It does have a good side.

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