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Discussion in 'Muppet Merchandise' started by beaker, Feb 25, 2003.
Forget blow-up dolls.
I have a tire repair kit. Where's that innertube...?
It's time everyone calmed down and moved on. We don't all have to like each other and we certainly don't have to share the same sense of humor. BUT we do have to be respectful. Some people didn't appreciate Cory's joke and that's fine. Attacking each other is not cool. Cory stepped up and apologized, publicly, to Luke and whatever you think of Cory, he deserves respect for that.
Let's all quit fanning the flames and get on with good, Muppety fun before this degenerates into yet another TP versus MC thread. Everyone is entitled to their website and forum preferences.
Don't mean to sound preachy, but we do have family-friendly standards on this particular Muppet site. Thanks everyone!
Here’s the skinny on the situation . Cory wanted to see the old Pepe picture that I created a year ago so I provided him with the link. We then joked what would happen if that link were published. He quickly posted it on the board. I wasn’t serious, but still had no problem with it. I also thought he’d use my address. That would have been a dead giveaway. He’s been joking a lot these days and it was a pretty obvious mock-up. I didn’t think anyone would believe it. There was no real blessing but there were a few giggles and no objection. I didn’t think he would actually do it. I did inform him that some members would be ticked off. Just the tread’s title alone is enough to annoy members.
None of that really bothers me. Muppet Central has always been a place for harmless fun. It’s when situations turn mean or personal that they become unacceptable. Cory should have realized that some people were going to go off and he should have been ready for that. There was no excuse for him to fire back so harshly. But on that note, some members were very hard on him. That’s the thing about any joke of this sort. You have to be prepared to take responsibility if it backfires.
I don’t think it was a mistake to post the image or to joke about it. I do think the reactions on all sides have gotten out of hand. Calling people names, bleeped or not, is not acceptable here and can result in action from the moderators. It seems that some members crave abuse and others are willing to give it. If you are truly annoyed by anyone on the forum, instead of feeding the problem – ignore them. There’s a whole button for that in User CP. Heck, I’ve tested it lately and enjoy it very much. It’s almost like a Caller ID option. Great stuff.
So in closing – I apologize if my artwork irked anyone. It was originally made for a different purpose. Now that everyone knows the situation, there is no need to fan the flames and assassinate the character of anyone – whether they are on this board or not. This thread will remain open for any productive discussion about how to deal with such situations it the future - if we should add this to a list of Muppet Central rules. If any more back and forth flaming occurs, this thread could be closed.
Sorry for the headache mods...really. I seriously would not post levity satire news threads if people didnt like em. Yes IVe done that a lot(Gobotron's great short film billed as an epic new trailer, etc)
But please believe me when I say this, it pains me to see such a deep rift in the Muppet community, and I do get an uneasy feeling inmy stoach from bickering and flaming. But what am I to do? Its the same folks who seem to havie it in for me no matter what related forum I go to. I wish everyone *could* get along,
I wish ther was no political divide over petty disagreements. I admit it, I wish things were like they were back in the day when everyone was cool. However, then I see all the contributing and great influx of new comers over the last few months and I am happy. I will be the first to admit Ive gone against the grain of what this is all about, with flaming and not helping matters.
My thing was I was just surprised to see this thread turn so ugly by the end of page one....just seemed so strange.
Somehow I feel further from the magic of it all then I did four years ago.
Oh yeah, that was before he mentioned me, and called Nate an assh*ole right? Yeah, boy, I sure do respect him now.
There was no legitimate reason for Cory to bring me up on this thread, as I had not made one comment about the Pepe picture, or his tirade afterwards. I am loathe to speculate on the actions of our most verbal bi-polar poster, but I can only guess that he was almost pathetically attempting to draw attention away from himself, and onto someone else. There was just no need for that.
As Jamie said, there was bound to be some backlash for his prank (which I frankly didn't think was necessarily deserved, but then again, I can see how some people just get sick of Cory's crap), however, if he wasn't prepared to take it, then he shouldn't have posted the fake photo. He might also have been wise to stick to lashing out at the people who actually commented too, instead of widening the circle of negativity (an analogy specifically designed to speak to Cory, since we all know how he likes to load us down with cheesy symbolism).
And for the record, I don't tolerate idiots or manic-depressive attention seekers IRL any better than I do online. I'll leave Cory to connect the dots on that theory.
after reading through everyone's posts...wow. i can understand everyone's point of view, but let's try to learn from the situation and not make it worse....
...listen to jamie
In the future, any prank merchandise posts should be posted in "Fun and Games".
Sounds simple enough to me.
sounds like a plan to me.
I agree. What do you think about adding this added to Muppet Central's guidlines?
That would be an excellent idea.
Why not just say something like, given how excited people can get over new merchandise/Muppet news, and to prevent any confusion for fans, please use the Fun and Games folder for... you get the idea.
I really think a lot of this could have been avoided if the post had been there in the first place. People might still have been "fooled", but would quickly have realized what was going on once they saw where it was coming from.
I'm not attacking you here Cory, but if it truly pains you, the really smart thing is to not create the crap in the first place. You brought Jessica into this yourself, Nate and Artie are just very occasional TP posters active much more here, and this has absolutely nothing to do with Toughpigs, in-fighting, Day 9, Phillips problems etc etc. I know it would be a great excuse to claim some sympathy if it were, but it's just pure fantasy. You've just been doing this kind of thing as an attention seeking effort for the past few weeks, tumbleweeds and all that, you admitted it, you said sorry - thats fine, but you knew people were getting annoyed with it and you carried on.
While this 'Pepe' thing isn't the biggest of deals on it's own and quite funny at first, you were warned by Jamie that some people wouldn't like it and you should have realised that in combination with the other stuff thats been happening some people would take offense with you. It's not part of some conspiracy - the Palisades forum people are ragging on you for the same reason as people here and they're just action figure collectors, defintely not some big ol scary Toughpigs lynchmob. As far as i'm concerned you apologised and i'm happy to leave it there but trying to bring other people into it to divert attention will only blow this up even more.
I like the regular Cory - even when i disagree with you, but sometimes you have these times (like the KSY thread) where you'd be better off taking a chill pill and not posting when you're in those moods, so that you don't have to clear up the mess later on. I think it'd be kinder on yourself - if you don't like a post, a user or a site to just ignore it and concentrate on the things you do like - just relax a little dude, it's a Muppet site for craps sake, we're not waging nuclear war on each other. I hope this didn't sound like an attack - i just want you to get the point that we all have to be responsible for our own actions and if we don't like what comes from them - better not to do stuff that people will flame you for in the first place. I wouldn't want you to turn into a monk or something though !
You have some great advice there, and i respect you very much as a friend and a member of the forum. It's a little late though to take the moral high ground and decide the thread should remain open for 'productive discussion' when you've been personally involved in this and could have saved it from happening in the first place. As you say, you gave Cory the link and didn't realise it would be posted, and then warned him what could happen when it was too late - kudos to you for that - but you know Cory as well as i do, and although a lot of the recent heat has happened at Palisades which you might not be aware of, you're a smart guy and would have noticed the way the Cormeister was acting lately here and how people had responded to it - maybe as Moderator, and one who had a feeling this could go down badly, you might have either persuaded the entropic one that while a potentially funny joke, it was probably not the right time for him to do this or just used your powers of deletion and saved the other forum members from this mess. I know it's a learning curve, and you may have a more relaxed personal opinion about this, but as you say, maybe there could be defined rules as to what the mods do in this kinda situation so things are clearer and sticky situations prevented. I know you have much more important things to do with the graphics and stuff, but it would help some.
This may sound like one enournous over-reaction but apparently you want productive discussion on how these things should be handled so :- I'm sure you realise that it's not all about how many members you can get signed up to a forum or how many prizes you can give away in one day - you and the other 'staff', if you do intend this place to be the 'central' site for Muppet fans (including YOUNG Muppet fans) to hang out, also have a moral responsibility to them while they are here. It's no different from running a 'real life' club and letting young kids do drugs in the doorway. There doesn't seem to be any well laid out rules here, and the moderators don't seem to be well informed on when they should and shouldn't react to something, and how they should react. If you just leave it vague and upto each persons discretion they obviously all react differently according to their own ideas, but the downside is it makes the policy uncohesive, and gives the impression you guys couldn't moderate your way out of a paper bag. Obviously you can't babysit everybody, but sometimes these things have been left to run and run when they should have been addressed much quicker and more responsibly - it only took 'Palisades' five minutes to decide that the 'Pepe Plush' thread, seeing how it blew up, was something they didn't want on their forum and got rid of it - and i think that was a lot kinder to Cory than putting him through all this. He's been given enough rope to hang himself time and time again here on countless occasions and so have quite a few other people in dubious threads. Although it's cool you obviously believe that people should have their say, freedom of speech etc, it'd be very cool if sometimes in recurring situations like the one's Cory seems to get himself into, you could be cruel to be kind so to speak and give these people some kind of 'time out' period so they can get their thoughts together before creating even more trouble for themselves, and close the threads so that the other forum members don't have to deal with all this going on and on too.
I'm sure some action at times would be welcomed, not criticised, and would make the forum a much happier place. At least some clearer rules when you get around to implementing your 'forum guidelines' will give people a much better idea of what is/isn't acceptable and what to expect, hopefully making the moderators job a lot more clearer and easier too. Some great work goes on here, the site looks pretty, the competitons are a great idea, great content new and old, but as the site and forum grows (especially with the freebies and action figure news) so will the problems - especially with more and more younger kids joining who might not understand how things are here, in contrast to some of the other forums they might hang out at (hence all the gaps between posting and incredibly long sigs) so making the rules clear for everyone might be a better option now things have changed than relying on people to be adult about things - which seems to go horribly horibbly wrong occasionally. Just my thoughts and opinions, not like i'm running the place ...... the challenge is yours ! (Gulp !)
In life, the real solved arguments are the ones that you worked out yourself without other people stepping in. But sometimes that is necessary. Being a moderator is not my life. It is simply a part of my day. It is our job to watch over the forum and moderate it - not control it.
I stepped in when things started going too far - not to take some moral high ground, but to create something productive out of the argument. There is no real dialogue in a flame debate, but there is value in calmly talking out the issues.
I honestly don't think I would have done anything differently. I feel that Cory had a right to post that picture just as you had a right to debate his motives. I don't agree with Palisades deleting that particular thread and I don't thing Phillip should close this unless there is more unproductive arguing.
As a moderator, we can't step in every time someone gets a hangnail. We sometimes have to wait for the situation to play out. Most of the time the discussion is dropped or the parties involved work it out.
Separate names with a comma.