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Discussion in 'Muppet Headlines' started by Beauregard, Jul 30, 2012.
Brilliant way to prove me wrong!!!
Okay... to be fair... Lucas took credit for everything he said he created. But it was the brilliant other people that made the first 3 movies what they were. The prequels were all his. And by that time he was a perfectionist surrounded by Yesmen.
But creators can screw up ideas just as well as third party and producing types. Usually because most things we credit as created by one person is the work of many. And then again, there are those, like George, that fall into comfort zones and make what they think they like.
About Frank's interview, I think he's right. Muppets never strived for cuteness, they strived more for hilarity. And... You know... Sometime romance.
(That's the first time I ever heard Franks normal voice. Squeee!)
Y'know, I find it odd that some are suggesting that some Muppet Freaks dislike MCC and MTI because they played other characters in a retelling of an already-existing story, because the Muppets have been doing that long before these movies came along... Muppet Musicians of Bremen anyone? Even Emmet Otter existed before Jim did the special.
The examples you provided are stories where characters weren't played by already established characters, save for Kermit as narrator. I think people have a problem with MCC and MTI because the characters are shoehorned into parts and have to act AS those characters rather than themselves.
My thoughts on Frank's frank thoughts on "The Muppets"
Was "The Muppets" movie too cute?
Yes! And so was the Muppet Babies segment of the Frank Oz directed MTM.Walter absorbed a lot of the cuteness, but it really was more earnest than cute and I loved it!
Did the movie go back more than forward?
Yes! But it's presumptuous to believe that the Muppets could just pick up where they left off and add new fans. This reintroduction was necessary.
Was the movie too retro?
Yes! And it was weird that they mostly represented the 80's. I think that represented Segel's personal nostalgic connection more than the Muppets' place in time, but it didn't bother me. It's best they knock most of that off for the next film.
Did most of the characters lack a little depth?
Yes! The players and dynamics have changed. The characters, especially those with new performers, will redevelop over time and in new ways based on their roots. That's better than merely parroting what came before. All of these recent performances offer opportunities for the Muppeteers to play and grow in new ways without several-year-long intermissions! Incidentally, Kermit & Piggy's relationship had a lot of depth, but maybe Oz felt they played it too straight. I thought it was touching.
Did Frank hate the movie?
No! It's clear that he gave it a shot and wasn't particularly thrilled, but he seemed to have a bit of a twinkle in his eye. That's more than a lot of people in his position would do. It seems that he wants to be allowed some creative control. I'm not sure if his is the right direction right now, but I wish Disney would bring him on as a creative consultant. That show of respect would mean much to a lot of people and it could only help things all-around.
I saw this video yesterday and wasnt going to say anything about it. But of course it was on my mind all day and now I've got to say something! LOL I love Frank Oz and all the work he has done with The Muppets, Star Wars, his hilarious films, etc.... but I don't understand why he always says such crazy things like that. This is not the first time he's said something negative about a newer Muppet project. I personally feel that Jim would have enjoyed the new movie. To me it had alot of heart and nostalgia that fans connected with. It made me tear up more than once because The Muppets are like old friends to me. I grew up with them and they have supplied happiness for me when I needed it the most. For him to say that the Muppets aren't suppost to be cute is almost a contradiction! I mean he did perform Baby Fozzie in the Muppet Babies scene in TMTM. You can't get any cuter than that!! It's almost like he's bitter or something? I know he's moved on and that's fine but if he wants to take part in Muppet projects and give his opinion then... great! If not, then he should just give the Muppets his blessings and not say anything else. It makes me sad that he's like that.
I can't believe I forgot this scene. Especially since it was one of my favorites.
Can someone tell me how does torturing a tied up Jack Black with sharp instruments and axes for entertainment, singing Smells like Teen Spirit drowned out by his screams "cute?" That was some pretty edgy, violent, yet Muppety humor right there.
Frank had best stay away from LTS. If he thought The Muppets was too cute, LTS will give him diabetus (The Wilfred Brimley pronunciation).
But then again... if we're talking about edginess lost...
I kinda agree with him. One of the things I always liked about the Muppet movies was they seemed more serious with some silly stuff mixed in. I always kid that one element of good Muppet films is that someone ends in mortal peril by the end.
Don't get me wrong, I loved the new movie for the most part. But I can see his point of view on it.
Also, don't get me wrong but I would say he knows the characters of the Muppets better than any of us seeing as how he worked with them and had to take on the characters.
On a similar note, Frank has said sometime back that he feels even SST isn't as hip or sharp anymore, but I think we can all thank the 90s and the competition from other shows like Barney for that.
People need to stop pestering Frank to come back to the Muppets.
He's not coming back to them, people! He's moved on! He is not the end-all be-all of the Muppets! Just because he's a Muppet-pioneer does not mean he's always right or knows the characters as well as some think he does! End of story.
Well, considering he was essentially Jim's number two man, his closest associate, and one of the few working hands-on on just about any and every project Jim had his hands up into the 80s when he did slowly start to branch out into his directing career, I'd say he probably have a better understanding of the characters than most. Maybe not as good of an understanding as say Jim himself, or even Jerry Juhl, but I'd say better than most.
Let me say this for me if this movie was not made and played out the way it was I more then likely still wouldnt have come back as a fan. If you want cuteness watch LTS you'll probably have a cuteness hear attack which I think I already clearly stated before. This movie to me was anything but cute. It gave the muppets the edge they needed to make a come back.
Kermit & Piggy's relationship was played out really well and straight to the point IMO. And I don't just say that cause I'm a fan.
If I had any gripes about the movie it was at times it did tend to focus too much on Gary and Mary but those were things I was easily able to overlook.
The thing is, the writers desperately want it to be. Frank was in the edgiest, most snarkily sarcastic sketch of the season, the slaughtering of the Spider-Man musical. Even the HSM parody had a take that stab at Disney's over exposure of that lame trend at the end. My favorite is still Telly's line about "No Doll Left Behind." How they caught the Pox News segment and not that is beyond me. It's just that there's SO much meddling by the executives and especially the various contradicting and conflicting child psychologist approved reports, that they have a leash on them. Not 80's cartoon series writer and animator leash... but a thick one.
Come on. Elmo, in all public appearances, is a dirty young man! He has the libido of one of the Warner Brothers.
I think Elmo tried to offer me a smoke once in NYC.
Speaking of Frank and LTS, once during the production of that special, he did actually visit the set. It was just a quick 'hi, how's it going?', but I still thought that was pretty cool. But yeah, if he saw the special itself, he'd probably want to give it the Bean Bunny treatment.
I think I would've preferred Bean Bunny in LTS.
Poor Bean Bunny, always the victim.
Unlike "The Muppets" though, i don't think you'll find a long ine of people ready to step up to the mike to offer any rebuttals or disagreements!
I don't think people are. I see it more as realizing he's a longtime member of the family. And when family members (in GOOD families anyway, not ones like mine) move out to their own place, the ones remaining in the house say "you're always welcome back home and there'll always be a seat at the table for you." People aren't pestering him to come back. They're reminding him his chair at the table's still there and his favorite meal is being prepared every Tuesday.
As per "The Muppets" being too cute, i'll defer to a spokesman on this one...
"Who ya callin' CUTE??!!"
Aw, come on. She carried a switchblade. If that's not the most adorable, and family friendly thing I can think of, I don't know what is.
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