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Discussion in 'Muppet Headlines' started by samtheeagle, Feb 17, 2004.
Holy cow. I have to take some time and write a big reply
Why does everybody think the Henson kids are so perfect? They are human, and they make mistakes like everybody else. All press releases have the "spin" on them to make everything sound great.
Here is my "spin."
"Hi there we are Disney. We are a company that is in a mess right now and we don't have ANY kid's stuff that adults can enjoy too. We MEAN IT when we say "family" entertainment means "kiddie time" entertainment. We make garbage movies like The Mighty Ducks all day long and then we call it "magic" and when we release all this junk on video we call EVERYTHING a "Disney Classic." We just released the "Lion King 1.5," which shows we are too hopeless to even come up with sequel titles anymore. We think we are so great and everything we do is great and anyody who doesn't like us is just being "negative" and making themselves sad. Pixar is crazy and we are always right. We bought the Muppets because we love Jim Henson? No, we just want to screw around with characters and it sounds good for us to say "we own them, too." Thanks for the Muppets, you stupid Henson kids."
I would be so happy if PIXAR had bought the Muppets
Now THERE is a fun and exciting company! Come on, everybody---the bottom line is that Disney has put out crap for the last few years. Do you feel happy knowing our Muppets are owned by the crap-masters now?
PIXAR is walking away from that dirtbag Eisner and his whole idiotic company. Why? Because he is crazy? No, because Disney stinks.
Who do I think is smart? Henson kids or Pixar? PIXAR!!!!!
Who do I think is smart? Henson kids or Pixar? PIXAR!!!!!
Who do I think is smart? Henson kids or Pixar? PIXAR!!!!!
Who do I think is smart? Henson kids or Pixar? PIXAR!!!!!
Who do I think is smart? Henson kids or Pixar? PIXAR!!!!!
Who reminds you of JIM HENSON? Disney or Pixar? PIXAR!!!!!
If the Henson kids loved their Daddy's legacy, they should have GIVEN the Muppets to Pixar for ONE DOLLAR, and then the kids can be happy with their personal fortunes and then go away. But nooooo......they sell Kermit and the gang to big stupid DIsney.
Wake up! Disney makes you think of Walt himself and "Fantasia," but that was many years ago.
Today we are talking Eisner, and all his goofballs and "The Mighty Ducks part III."
Then somebody wrote:
"Disney also believes it can reinvent the characters, by expanding beyond their normal puppet realm and using them as the basis for computer-generated 3D versions."
That was from a NEWS website. Muppets in cartoon form aren't Muppets, just like a Muppet Mickey is not a cartoon. BUT WE WILL HAVE THE MUPPETS CHANGED, WHILE MICKEY STAYS A CARTOON!!!!
Talk about Muppets walking away like Pixar, No...because Pixar had short deals for a few years. They are not renewing. Henson kids SOLD the Muppets outright. They can't walk away. They will be turned into garbage and they can't leave. Just wait until the first Disney Muppet projects show up. Then you will understand.
I am not being "negative." If I see a friend die, I don't stand there and LAUGH about it.
I GET SAD
Here again is this amazing thing somebody wrote. It takes the cake:
"Curtain pulls back to reveal Kermit & Friends packing their bags
Saying goodbye, going away
*Fozzie packs his rubber chicken, glances at the stage*
Seems like goodbye's such a hard thing to say
*Rowlf touches the keys to the piano one last time*
Touching a hand, wondering why
*Scooter hands Wembly a small piece of stone from the Theater*
It's time for saying goodbye
*Bert & Ernie help load the suitcases into the truck marked 'Disney or Bust'*
Saying Goodbye - Why is it sad?
*Piggy hugs Mokey and wipes a tear away*
Makes us remember the good times we had.
*Gonzo shakes hands with Oscar*
Much more to say, foolish to try
*Elmo watches the commotion, head hanging low*
It's time for saying goodbye
*Animal puts his drums into the truck, for once not wanting to say his usual 'Bye-bye'*
Dont want to leave, but we both know
*Bunsen & Beaker stand together outside of Muppet Labs, shaking their heads in sorrow*
Sometimes it's better to go
*Stadtler & Waldorf climb into the back of the truck, silent, without a single insult*
Somehow I know we'll meet again
*Big Bird hugs the Sweedish Chef and hands him a bag of his best birdseed*
Not sure quite where, and I dont know just when
*Sweetums pats Junior Gorg on the back*
You're in my heart, so until then
*Gobo helps Pepe and Rizzo into the truck*
Wanna smile, wanna cry
*The remaining Muppets now all climb into the truck and wave to the Fraggles and Sesame Street characters*
*Kermit now appears, his head looking down, holding onto Robin's hand, his heart heavy as he leaves the only home he has ever known*
La la la la la la la la
*Kermit walks out of JHC and joins Piggy who is standing by the steel gates of his former home; Robin sighs in confusion*
It's time for saying goodbye
*The gates slam shut with a clang, forever locking Kermit & Co away from their past life. Kermit turns away and climbs into the truck with Piggy, and hugs Robin tightly. A single tear slips from his eye and falls to the ground.*"
Goodbye my loving Muppets. There was no reason for you to turn into a Frankenstein monster.
Enjoy your EXTRA many millions, idiot Henson kids.
I remember how we were all happy and excited when the Henson Company bought the muppets back from that German company. Then they turn right around and sell them off again. Why??? You would think they would have wanted to hang on to the muppets and use them for productions, but no. It's like they wanted to wash their hands clean of the muppets. I don't get it. Did they not think they could be profitable with the muppet characters? Or were they just fulfilling their father's wishes?
Wowsers! I had no idea the anti-Eisner campaign had really gotten that big. Always thought it was always limited to the ramblings of a couple disgruntled fans like us. It's good to know that we're not the only ones who feel this way about the man and that equally influencial people are out to get him! Maybe Eisner will be forced to go hide in the Afghanistan mountains...
Hello again, Zack! I left a longer reply in my official 'hello again' post.
Here is a GREAT reply
Man, check this out from this "Jim Hill" guy
I wish I had found this sooner. Like I said before, and now I say it loud without shame: THE HENSON KIDS ARE IDIOTS!
They DO NOT care about what their father gave to the world. The Henson kids have had a life of fun and luxury all the time, so let them shut up and go WORK for a living or enjoy their several millions and GET LOST and give the Muppets away to somebody GOOD. They're just not good people. TO heck with them!
Check out this article. Here is a link and a copy and a paste, and a good link at the end to a t-shirt that says "Brian, your dad wants his name back," on the front, and "1955-2004" on the back.
I am telling you that Eisner is a dirtbag and he just bought the Muppets quick to look good. I will stay with the comments of JOAN GANZ COONEY, too.
THIS STINKS! You're a moron, Brian! I hate your guts!!!!
Here is the links and articles:
Is the Muppets deal really part of Michael Eisner's Wall Street distraction plan?
Jim Hill wants to feel happy about yesterday's announcement. But -- at the same time -- he wonders: How can Henson's kids actually sell the Muppets off to a man who clearly doesn't view these beloved characters as an asset. But -- rather -- as a quick way to cover his a**.
Well, you heard it here first.
Back on February 2nd, as part of my "Damage Control, Disney Style" article, I mentioned that the Walt Disney Company was making yet another attempt at acquiring the Jim Henson Company. Well -- yesterday -- after more than a decade of trying, Mickey finally consummated his marriage with the Muppets.
What surprised a lot of folks in the entertainment industry was the way that this deal actually went down. With the Henson family not selling off the entire Jim Henson Company to Disney. But -- rather -- just the Classic Muppets, the Muppet Babies and the characters from the popular Disney Channel series, "The Bear in the Big Blue House."
No Fraggles. No "Farscape." No characters from "Labyrinth" or "The Dark Crystal." And certainly no "Sesame Street" characters (which were sold off to Sesame Workshop back in December 2000 by the Henson Company's previous owners, EM.TV and Merchandising AG). Just Kermit and Bear and friends.
Given that the Muppet characters have -- for almost 50 years now -- been so closely associated with Jim Henson and his legacy, one wonders how there can actually be a Jim Henson Company without Miss Piggy and her pals on board. But it sounds like Brian and Lisa Henson, the co-chairpersons and co-chief executives of Jim Henson Co., are going to try and make a go of it.
Certainly in yesterday's press conference, the Henson kids tried to put the best possible face on this awkward situation. Particularly given that they'd just sold off the rights to Kermit, the very character that appears on the logo of the Jim Henson Company. But -- in the press release -- Brian Henson was quoted as saying:
"This new and very important relationship will enable our two companies to combine our respective talents and resources in ways that will fully realize the tremendous potential of the Muppet and Bear franchises. (Disney Chairman and Chief Executive) Michael Eisner's long-standing passion and respect for the Muppets gives me and my family even more confidence in Disney as a partner."
Of course -- if I were a cynical sort -- I'd suggest that the ONLY thing that Michael Eisner is passionate about these days is finding a way to divert Wall Street's attention. To make investment analysts stop thinking of Disney's CEO as the guy who botched the Pixar contract extension talks. But -- rather -- as the guy who affordably filled the creative void left by Pixar by picking up the rights to the Muppets and the "Bear" characters for basically fire sale prices.
"For how much?" you ask. Low. Ridiculously low. I've heard that the Jim Henson Company was in such rough financial shape that Disney was actually able to snatch up the characters, the film and television library and all the associated copyrights and trademarks for under $60 million.
By the way: Look for that info to get leaked to the press tomorrow. As part of Disney's board of directors' attempt to rehabilitate Eisner's reputation. To make it appear as if Michael's really this canny businessman (well worth keeping as the head of the Walt Disney Company) for cutting such an amazing deal.
And don't believe the story that Michael's reps on the board are currently circulating. About how supposedly the Muppet acquisition deal was "... actually in the works for weeks now." If that was really the case, why didn't Disney announce this deal last week at the company's quarterly earnings meeting? When the Mouse so desperately needed some good news to share with the financial community?
No. This news was announced yesterday because this deal was closed yesterday. From what I hear, the people at Hollywood's historic Chaplin Studios (Henson's corporate headquarters) are walking around in shock. Asking "What does this mean?" Man, I wish I knew.
Getting back to the Henson family: At today's press conference, Lisa was quoted as saying:
"In the months before his death in 1990, my father Jim Henson pursued extensive discussions with the Walt Disney Co. based on his strong belief that Disney would be a perfect home for the Muppets. As such, the deal we announced today is the realization of my father's dream ... My brothers and sisters -- Brian, Cheryl, John, Heather -- and I are so proud to have the Muppets living under the same roof as Walt Disney's own timeless characters. We could not possibly be more pleased."
My father's dream"?! … Well … That might be news to Joan Ganz Cooney, Jim Henson's long time friend and the co-creator of "Sesame Street." According to Cooney, Henson -- in the last months of his life -- supposedly expressed some real reservations about handing his beloved creations over to the Walt Disney Company. The aggressive way that Disney's lawyers constantly pushed him to include the "Sesame Street" characters as part of the deal had particularly reportedly bothered Jim.
"He wouldn't even discuss how it might work," said Cooney. But that didn't stop Mickey's attorneys from continuing to lean on Henson. Which is why -- in the late winter of 1990 -- Jim allegedly expressed his concerns to Joan that maybe it was a mistake to hand the Muppets over to Mickey.
But I guess it's too late to raise any concerns now. According to yesterday's press release, The Walt Disney Company and the Henson have signed a binding purchase agreement. It's hoped that -- provided that this deal can sail through the necessary regulatory clearances -- that this transaction can actually close within 60 days.
I really wish I felt better about this deal. But -- given that it's fairly obvious that the only reason that Michael Eisner made this deal NOW was that he needed something positive to talk about at next month's shareholders meeting -- this whole thing kind of rubs me the wrong way. Particularly this line in Eisner's portion of the press conference. Where Michael said:
"We are also pleased that this transaction puts us in a position to work with the Henson Company on future projects."
I would hate to think that Brian Henson actually sold off his dad's legacy -- this great assembly of much beloved characters -- just because Michael Eisner promised the Jim Henson Company a production deal. Just so Brian could once again try his hand at directing.
Here's hoping that I'm really wrong about all this. That this Disney / Muppet acquisition turns out to be a good thing.
I mean -- to be fair -- I guess I should mention that the Imagineers are absolutely thrilled that this deal finally went through. According to one WDI insider:
"Now we can finally dust off all those plans for all those great attractions and shows that Jim Henson himself had a hand in creating -- 'The Great Muppet Movie Ride,' 'Gonzo's Pandemonium Pizza Parlor.' This deal is going to be huge for Disney's theme parks. Particularly Disney-MGM and DCA … Ohmigod! DCA! We can actually do 'Miss Piggy's Superstar Limo' now!? Trust me, Jim. This is gonna be great."
So at least some folks are happy about this deal going down. Me? I have to admit that I'm really happy that the Henson characters will now have the Mouse's money and marketing might behind their next generation of projects. Hopefully, this means that we're going to have some truly great new Muppet movies and TV shows moving through in the production pipeline soon.
But -- at the same time -- I'm troubled by the very idea of Brian and Lisa okaying this sale. Selling off their dad's legacy like this. Particularly at a time when it's obvious that Michael didn't push through this deal just because Disney's CEO was excited about all the creative possibilities involved with bringing the Muppets on board at the Mouse House. All that Eisner's really hoping that Kermit and Co. will accomplish right now is that they'll distract his detractors.
I'll say this much … If you weren't already planning on going to Philadelphia to take part in Roy Disney and Stanley Gold's "Save Disney" shindig, then you'd better make plans to do so now. Because I can virtually guarantee you that next month's annual shareholder meeting is now going to become a veritable Muppetfest. With Kermit making an appearance behind the podium and "The Bear in the Big Blue House" dancing on stage. While Michael crows about how the Muppets will now be able to fill the creative void left by Pixar. How ABC will now be able to use the Muppets to revitalize its ratings, etc.
Sounds like a **** of a show, doesn't it? I know I'll be there. I just wish I felt happier about this whole thing.
What do YOU think? Do you think that it's great that the Walt Disney Company has finally acquired the Muppets? Or do you feel more like this Muppet fan, who chose to express his disapproval of the deal with a rather cutting t-shirt?
THANKS FOR KILLING YOUR FATHER'S MUPPETS, BRIAN.
NEVER AGAIN WILL NEW KERMIT STUFF BE ON SESAME STREET.
I SPIT ON ALL DISNEY CGI-MUPPET PROJECTS.
I keep you in my heart always, Jim Henson
First, there's mixed opinions on Jim Hill. Personally, I take anything he says with a grain of salt--he tends to be overly dramatic and exaggerate things. But, he does write some good pieces every now and then.
As for the Henson "kids", that's pretty harsh. Jim Henson always advocated chasing one's dreams. Well, maybe the Henson family's dream in life does not involve working with the Muppets. Maybe they have other interests they wish to pursue. If that's the case, why should they spend the rest of their life working with the Muppets?
Brian and the others owed us (as fans) no obligation to continue their father's work. Yet, they've kept working at it for over a decade. It's very possible that they decided to sell the franchise to Disney because Disney could more closely match Jim's vision. Or maybe it was all about greed. NONE OF US KNOW FOR SURE--and I don't feel it's fair to bash the Henson family without knowing their personal reasons.
I'm guessing that the decision to sell had more of an emotional impact on them than on any of us. It couldn't have been an easy choice, but they did what they felt was best for themselves, their father's work, and the Muppets. That's really all we can expect from them.
So, perhaps we should say "thanks" to Brian and the others for keeping the Muppets alive over the past decade. Personally, I wish them the best of luck.
Actually, that shirt is funny to me.
I've been thinking about the pro's and con's and I hope everyone will just follow my suit and sit back and ride the rapids for a bit. We will at LEAST have the Muppets popping out at us over the next 3-5 years, hopefully a LOT. After that is when I expect them to be as rare as they've been since 1990.
Henson sells Mupets to Disney
Thats great. But Sesame Street and the Muppets are now diffrent companies.
Hi Ho I'm now a part of Disney yah
You want me to THANK the Henson kids? ?
What the heck for? When Jim was working his butt off from ground zero, and starting to make some money, the kids were making a mess in their diapers and picking their noses. Truth.
They grew up in comfort and luxury. They were handed the company. They didn't work at all to get it.
Don't you guys realize how hard it is to build a success like that? What about all the dreams of the people here that will not come true? It takes HARD work to even TRY, and the Henson kids did bugger all. I thank them for nothing. If anything, they can send ME a "thank you" card for being a fan all this time and keeping the faith for 14 years. "Thank" them...HA!
I am not a little kid. Nobody has to tell me that the kids have the right. But I have the right to say it makes me want to BARF.
It gets down to the seriousness: How much money does anybody need? All the Henson kids are multimillionaires. They will always have a nice house, nice car, nice clothes, nice toys, great food, leisure time, and money in the bank. All everything taken care of. How nice it must be to live like KINGS AND QUEENS!
So, you have all you need, and then, you give away the hopes and sweet dreams of our hero Jim Henson to a garbage man and a garbage company. And for WHAT? A bigger buck? I want to BARF again!
Why not say to Pixar "Have the Muppets for 5 years. Try something new with them. Let's have a try. Never mind the money. Do something good."
No, they PERMANENTLY sell them to a creep like Eisner.
It means the Muppets will become a mountain of junk, instead of a small jewel.
Just wait until you see the new DISNEY-created Muppets! Pepe was the LAST good one you'll get. You'll see. Wait until you see how little care they have for the character's integrity.
Muppet message is LOVE is more important. Friends stick together.
Flush it all down the toilet, Brian Henson...YOU MORON!
NO MORE KERMIT ON SESAME STREET---I SPIT ON YOU, BRIAN!!!
Wow, you write long responses.
And Mark, Jim Henson was a rich (or richer) S.O.B. too, and he was selling to Disney for way more money than what his kids are getting. Does that make him a greedy man as well? No. Not everyone who has money or makes a business deal you don't like is a horrible person.
Also, the Henson family did sell to EM.TV for $680 million. Why I certainly did not agree with that decision, Henson IS a corporate entity and not a group of hippies talking about the Rainbow Connection all day. They are going to need to make some tough business decisions in order to stay afloat and maximize the profitability of the company and ensure that the "Muppet" brand stays alive and not just depending on appearances on "Hollywood Squares." I am sure that Brian and Co. are decent people who care about their father and their father's company (which they are keeping), but they are also serious businesspeople who need to do what they think is best for the company.
And Kermit hasn't been on Sesame Street in maybe 3 years, which is just as well 'cause I want the "Muppets" franchise to be jumpstarted again. There are better things the Muppets can do right now than Muppet/Sesame/Fraggle "crossovers" that haven't happened in many years anyway.
And by the way, if some person is too stupid to not know the difference between Pluto and Goofy, that's THAT person's fault, not Michael Eisner's or Disney's.
And the signature says...
Wow, we got some heated debating going on here.
Raisin, if you call Jim Henson a SOB then you are no fan of goodness
We can disagree all day, but insulting Jim is too much. And I am GLAD he was RICH because he DESEREVED IT. I like rich people who are good.
The quote from JOAN GANZ COONEY is a true quote. You can specualte all you want, but I will side with a friend of Jim's.
It would have been DIFFERENT is Jim had been there while the sale was going on, because obviously the Muppet quality goes down after he passed on.
You say they are "keeping" the Henson company. HA! The company no longer has Kermit. It is now just a crummy production company. When Dark Crystal hit 20 years they didn't re-release it, and they have no plans for a sequel. Maybe they will start again with that "second-hand" Star Trek called Farscape.
Yeah, maybe the new logo for the Henson company will be Jim's signature next to some STUPID ALIEN HEAD that Jim never did and that some goof in Los Angeles dreamed up one day after watching Deep Space Nine episodes
"Tough business decisions?" They had 14 years to make some decisions, and this is what they have finally done: FAILED.
After you screw up a million times, you lose what you have. One screwup after another from the Henson kids.
Maybe some of you enjoy garbage like Lion King 1.5. Well, I like Finding Nemo better. Heck, give them to NBC for 5 years and find out what happens. Give them to SONY...anybody big...but sell them out for dirty Disney? Disney wants to put them on the shelf-dead and stuffed. They are just a notch in the belt for Disney.
DISNEY WILL NEVER promote the Muppets as hard as possible. WHY? Because why would they want Kermit to be bigger than Mickey? That means Muppets will ALWAYS be small potatoes for Disney. They are building the MOUSE legend, not the FROG.
"Tough business decisions?" How about some tough SOUL decisions?
14 years ago we had Jim and he was dealing with Disney. EVERYBODY STOP saying it is the same thing now, and that this is what Jim wanted because it is NOT TRUE.
Jim had BIG power. If Disney started to mess around, the VOICE of Kermit could cause big trouble in the press. Who cares what Steve Whitmire would say today? Disney would just hire another guy. Situation is totally different now. AM I WRONG?
Jim has passed on, and Disney is a stupid mess run by creeps. Disney FAMILY members hate the Disney company----WHAT MORE PROOF DO YOU WANT?
I could say "I hope you are reading this, Brian," but who am I kidding? If the Henson kids read any of this, they would do things different..if they CARED, that is
OK, Jim was not an SOB, but you know the term.
Secondly, I know the Joan Ganz Cooney quote. It's been in an article here on MC for years. I'm sure Jim had his reservations, and the 1989/90 deal did have its drawbacks I'm sure. It does not mean he was backing out on the deal and it was headed for a standstill.
As for the Henson family's business decisions, I didn't say they were all good. Sony, ABC, EM.TV, yes they were all disasters. And I would have preferred the Hensons selling JHC to Disney as opposed selling the franchise that identifies the company, the Muppets. What the now-Muppetless Henson Co. does now, I don't know. And unless they release Fraggle Rock DVDs, who knows if I'll care really.
All I'm saying is that just because the family sold the Muppets to Disney, it doesn't mean they're greedy, snobby people. I don't know how they got to their final decision, but hopefully that will be found out. (Doubt it.)
And yeah, within the Disney company, Mickey would have a bigger profile than Kermit. You know, being MICKEY MOUSE. It doesn't mean that the Muppets aren't going to be used and they won't get any good promotion with whatever project or projects Disney wants to use the characters for. They are not spending $60-100 million on these properties just to let them sit there.
We do not know how it's going to go, nor would we have known how the 1990 merger would have went, but you know...eh, keep believing, keep pretending and all that mess. I don't know.
Actually Jim was being messed around by the Disney execs just as much as anyone is nowadays during those negotiations. He was AFAIK still intending to go through with the sale. He was more interested in the characters being able to live on through Disney's massive staying power than any little internal problems within the company.
As for Mickey always being the figurehead, very true. Mickey is just a character though, The Muppets are a franchise - and Henson are pretty much going to be running it anyway for 3 years. I don't actually expect things to be massively different for now. Things will be better in many ways, if there is bad to come that will be after this initial 3 year period because you can imagine while they are hot at first they will get used a lot less after this has worn off. They don't seem to be promoting Mickey over Pooh, i think they'd rather have three strong characters out there as recognisable Disney spokesmouse/bear/frogs than just the one.
I believe the `89 Disney deal actually fell apart mostly over money. After Jim died Disney drastically lowered it's offer for the company (which was originally about $300 million if memory serves) on the theory that the original deal had included not just the Muppets but also acquiring Jim Henson's creative services. With Jim gone Disney was getting much less than they originally wanted. Complicating this was the fact that the Henson family was reportedly hit with a large tax bill because they inherited the company. Disney also began merchandising the Muppets before they had a final agreement settled. Henson sued Disney over it and Disney settled the lawsuit just before it went to trial (apparently they didn't like the idea of headlines about Mickey Mouse ripping off Kermit the Frog).
Financial terms were not disclosed, but the press always says $150 million.
It was $150 million, reduced to about $100 million i think. It's correct that this did not include Jim's creative services.
Agreed. If they actually bought the Henson Co., they would technically still be branded "Jim Henson's Muppets," for the Muppet characters would still be under the Jim Henson unit of Disney. But since they're buying the characters, they would have every right to brand them as "Disney's Muppets." Which would not be RIGHT at all.
Hopefully Disney and Henson have discussed, or are discussing, that prospect.
Hey no offense to anybody I am just upset
With the passage of time, Disney wants you to think of THEM and their MOUSE. It's the DISNEY company for crying out loud.
Do they remind you all day of the guy who died of AIDS who wrote all those great songs for Disney? No. They feel "he got paid, that's the end of it."
If it was another company, then they would want the Muppets to be the best of the best.
With Disney it will always be "Yeah, we'll make a buck out of the Muppets, but......"
In all ways, Kermit will always be second fiddle. Like a loser on the sidelines.
Separate names with a comma.