Miley and Demi

Well, I mean of the four main stars, yeah, a number of the recurring actors had rather successful careers, but that's to be expected with secondary actors, it's easier for them to get work post successful series, especially if they are already character actors.

But as for Miley and Demi, again, not so sure about Demi since I never really paid that much attention to her to begin with, but I have a feeling Miley is definitely going to end up like Lindsay Lohan, I can just foresee that happening, and I wouldn't be surprised if she ends up flushing her career down the toilet as well.

Julia Louis-Dreyfus' new show Veep is supposedly getting really good buzz, though hopefully HBO will eventually post it online, or else I will not be able to see it.

I had no idea she already had another new show... isn't it a little too soon for her though? I mean, didn't Old Christine JUST end?

I think Old Christine ended in the spring of 2010, so it's been two years between shows, which I don't think is too little time. She took longer between Seinfeld and whatever she did after that, I know she had some sitcom that didn't do very well before Christine. Plus, when HBO comes calling with a project, you have to answer that call.

It was Watching Ellie. The pilot was brilliant, and I wish the show was exactly like the pilot. If I can remember, it was sort of 24-ish, at least in the respect that there was a timer, and you followed Ellie around her day. Can't remember if it was in real time or they cut from hour to hour (I think the latter)... but then they turned it into a generic sitcom after that. All I can remember was the episode they were on Family Feud and someone panicked when the category was "Most popular Flavor of Popcicle" and said "tambourine" which translated into tangerine for some reason. Other than that, it was alright, but didn't leave an impression.

While I'm on the subject. Bob, the show Jason was a motivational speaker that had a crappy life... I liked the concept of that one, and the one where Michael Richards was Vic Nardoza, the private eye. That one where Jason Alexander was a Sports Talk Show Host was crap... and I'm the only one, apparently, but I HATED New Christine and thought it was the worst of all the Seinfeld Spinoffs career moves for cast members of the show.

I'm not counting The Tick... which was a noble effort, but the writers (the ones that weren't Ben Edlund, anyway) didn't quite get why The Tick was so special, and ruined the show with American Maid and Die Fledermaus knockoffs (as Saban, now Disney, owns every single original character created for the show) that took over the show with a lame caustic relationship. Not to mention the budget prevented any actual Super Hero-ness from happening in the show.

I would argue such mindless fluff is anything but harmless when it becomes more popular than actual art.

I think you're far from the only person who didn't like Old Christine, it was a pretty typical CBS sitcom loaded with cliches. By the way, Jason Alexander does speeches now as "Donny Clay", which is the same motivational speaker character from the old show just with a different name. And there's a Twitter account too.

Yeah, but I'm comparing it to "music" that glorifies Pimps (we know what they really are) and smacking hos. I'd rather kids listen to real music, but I'd rather them listen to something harmless and age appropriate than something that promotes violence on that level. And I'm NOT a censorship kinda guy.

You know what irritates me? How these child stars, even as they grow up, are "forced" into being "role models" by parents with double standards who let the TV raise their kids but are the first to freak out when something they don't like happens involving said stars.

I personally don't think any celebrity should be a role model but hey, thats just me

Well, it's a two-way street...

When it comes to the female demographic at least, little girls really could use some positive role-models, because let's face it, when it comes to girl-power in the media, it's all about sexualizing and growing up way too fast, which is pretty much what Drtooth already covered... so for something like Hannah Montana to come along, being a wholesome, positive, and decent figure, I can see where parents would want their little girls who look up to someone like that, THEN unfortunately, Miley Cyrus is like every other girl her age and older, they cannot wait to tarnish their image because they want to be able to be free to do whatever they want, which includes questionable behavior (the pole dancing, the salvia smoking, the callously throwing around wordplay that would suggest she's a stoner, the tattoos, etc), then of course parents are going to wig out about it. I mean I actually am surprised that little girls didn't start dressing up like ladies of the evening and pole dancing on top of ice cream carts because they saw "Hannah Montana" do it... that's how bad the situation is.

Then of course, there's those who in the media who HAVE tried to remedy the situation: SST's been trying for YEARS to introduce a new female Muppet that would have as big an impact on kids as Elmo's had, and after years of bombs, we finally got Abby Cadabby, and not only that, but there have been a number of inserts aimed specifically at little girls involving Abby, Zoe, and Rosita. Then of course, Arthur apparently had an episode recently where Francine and Muffy are upset because there really aren't a lot of cool female characters in movies and on TV.

And really, I don't think shows like Toddlers & Tiaras or Dance Moms are helping the situation at all, I think it's only making things worse... as much negative reaction as those shows get, WHY are they still on then? And on top of that, WHY is that one little girl from T&T getting her own show about moving to NYC?

But parents should not be forcing "role model" status onto these tween celebrities after they are done and over with whatever little kid thing it was. Miley is a teenager doing things that *some* teenagers do. You can't really fault her for that

I know that, and when that happens, that makes those like her actually want to tarnish their images and try to get out from under that scope so that won't have to be obligated to keep acting all pristine and squeaky clean because millions of little girls end up looking up to them.

Combining that together...

Like I said before, I HATE the term role model. People are humans, they have flaws, they screw up, they have free will. Role Model implies "God that we have to follow the example of." And then once they do something stupid and human, they're all the sudden their history's greatest monsters. Look at Tiger Woods. We wanted to make him some super human super hero of righteousness because he plays a sport (technically it's an issue of being the first not an old white guy to play that sport), and then he basically bonked a bunch of groupies (who WERE planning to make money off of him somehow) while he was married, and suddenly, he's worse than Hitler. And I'm not making a goofy overexaggeration... our stupid culture treats some famous guy getting some worse than genocide because we're SOOOO over-reactionary. That turned into a media crapstorm.

However, they become role models for a reason. They initially set a good example of following dreams, applying themselves, and some sort of imaginary clean living. It's unfair to compare a pop star to sports stars because, let's face it... Sport Stars have it worse. other than said Tiger reference... that Olympic swimmer who smoked pot that one time. It's like he killed a bunch of puppies. You watch That 70's Show, and it's ALL about teenagers on pot. That's what the circle is. And the most laughable thing... when they trade players to other teams. Johnny Daimon (or however you spell it) was made into freakin' Jesus when he was with the Sox (I'm in Boston... this is NOT an overexaggeration. It's...all...freakin'...true), and then when he left to go to the Yankees it was like... I dunno... it was like Batman joined the Legion of Doom, killed Superman and Wonder Woman in psychotic ways, and there was no God.

But when it comes to television characters...

• No one is mentally able to separate a character from the actor, apparently.
• There are actually very few positive female role models in shows for girls, but for some reason we have to have strong women in boy's cartoons... which is organic if you have a super hero team... but that's STILL classified as a boy's show
• Sometimes it's not really about role models as being relatable. That's why so many kid's cartoons are about kids, that's why Elmo's all over Sesame Street
• Kids DO take things away from what they watch... it's just that parents always claim it's the wrong thing.
• Besides... characters that we should follow the example of are usually the lamest characters on the show. The ones with huge gaping flaws are usually the ones we find interesting for multiple reasons.

What parents really need to teach is a bit of tolerance and forgiveness. The people you admire aren't always going to behave exactly the way you'd like them to. And sometimes they will make mistakes. That doesn't mean you can't still admire their work (of course there are extreme exceptions to this rule, but again they are extremes, heh). And as parents it is your responsibility to make sure your kids don't copy bad behavior just because they see someone else doing it.

Took the words right out of my mouth, Herald.

There's the person and their creation/work/character/accomplishments.

Like I said, I can't look at Wonder Woman the same way again... but frankly, I was never a fan (more of a fan of the women of X-Men as far as female super heroes go). If you ignore his weird private life, he still created one of the most beloved comic book characters of all time.

Thats what I was trying to get at but didn't know how to word it

I said that before too... but yeah.

There are things I'm actually happier not knowing. But it doesn't kill characters for me. The behind the scenes problems Northern Calloway had are not painting my thoughts about Sesame Street's David. Not even in an ironic hipster reads Cracked articles too much type of way.

We all have demons... some do a better job hiding them than others. Then there's those who are so lucky that their demons are so miniscule and trivial that it doesn't matter.

People are only human and prone to screwing up. You have to do something unspeakably bad for me to not see you otherwise.

Reminds me of a Hey Arnold episode where Arnold meets one of his favorite authors and sees that she's become a bitter old recluse disillusioned with her sappy stories, but Arnold still loves her work regardless. This inspired her to create a new story for the first time in over 10 years based on that event.

I remember that too, and IIRC, there were actually a few episodes like that... I recall one where Phoebe wins a contest to have dinner and mingle with her favorite pop star, whom she finds out to be a big hack who doesn't even do his own vocals and lip syncs to all of his songs, and is pretty much a big egotistical jerk, which actually intrigues Helga, who didn't like him in the first place. Then I believe there was another episode where Eugene is disappointed to find out his TV hero isn't as great as he appears to be, then sudden goes all gangsta in revolt to being lied to, which rubs off on another little kid who surprisingly looked up to him as an example.

I just think mindless Pop like Bieber is harmful in its own way. It encourages the notion that the only thing young girls are good for is screaming for some vapid pretty boy fad.