1. Welcome to the Muppet Central Forum!
    You are viewing our forum as a guest. Join our free community to post topics and start private conversations. Please contact us if you need help with registration or your account login.

  2. Christmas Music
    Our 17th annual Christmas Music Marathon is underway on Muppet Central Radio. Listen to the best Muppet Christmas music of all-time through December 25.

  3. Sesame Street Season 48
    Sesame Street's 48th season officially began Saturday November 18 on HBO. After you see the new episodes, post here and let us know your thoughts.

Muppet Haunted Hotel

Discussion in 'Muppet Appearances' started by MuppetVison, Aug 29, 2002.

  1. Luke

    Luke Active Member

    Gee .... i'm so scared ! *Bites fingernails*

    I am talking about the Muppets that belong (officially) to EMTV, a company in dire financial trouble. I'm sure the Muppets will go on forever in people's hearts, minds and through video etc, and any chance of bad stuff happening is very minimal, but to say there will always be new Muppet stuff or actual puppets out there on TV is unfortunately no longer a 'given'. I'm not being cynical about it, i'm being realistic - i'm sure you've read the news releases as i have. To say they are 'safe' is just not true - it's sad, but it's life. You mention the Muppeteers - do you not think they are worrying about their jobs and future careers right now ?

    As for the rest, i won't even bother. You are just acting like such a total d*ckhead lately and your attitude is so bad that it's no longer worth getting into these things with you. If you want to question who is a 'fan' and who is not then i'd take a look in the mirror and at your actions around the forum over the last month or so !
     
  2. danielromens

    danielromens Member

    Luke, I have to agree with you buddy, a d*ckhead indeed. It would seem to this poster that beaker has lost all sense of what makes this forum a forum, namely the right to one's own opinion. Beaker, first of all I'd say you need to sit down and take a breath, use that time to learn some tact, and then go back and read the responces for your posts. Heck, go back and read your posts, I think you'll see that your behavior is rediculous. You've stated your opinions and luke and the others are stating there's. No need to get your Kermit panties in such a tight wad my friend.

    Luke is absolutely right, and down right realistic when it comes to the current state of the union. the muppets, though loved by all of us, are in the plainest sence, a commodity. They are a group of copyrighted characters, no longer owned by someone who is out for their best interest, but the interest of their struggling bankrupted company. As for the sentimental, beaker, you are correct they will continue to live as a television and film phenom, a fact that Luke agreed with, further cementing the observation that you have seeming gone off the perverbial deep end. Let's face it though, the sections of the Henson company could very well be split and shelled out to whoever may bid on them, a case which would be tragic and truly the end of an era.
     
  3. FellowWLover

    FellowWLover Member

    Yeah! And don't be draggin' Snoopy into this either!
     
  4. beaker

    beaker Well-Known Member

    >>>As for the rest, i won't even bother. You are just acting like such a total d*ckhead lately and your attitude is so bad that it's no longer worth getting into these things with you. If you want to question who is a 'fan' and who is not then i'd take a look in the mirror and at your actions around the forum over the last month or so !<<<

    First off, it's Cory...I know ya might spell things with an extra e, but if youre gonna attack somebody at least get their name right!

    It pains me to see this, but whereas you yourself used to be objective and nice in your own Lukester way. You have had nothing but the most bleakest and cynical things to say lately.
    You seem to thrive on giving away possible hush hush stuff you shouldnt, then somehow manage to say Palisades line won't last past a couple waves, and that the Muppets are teteering on the brink of destruction. You attack me for me stating the same apprehension about KSY, yet you yourself first badmouthed the Hoobs show, then jumped on board, and even bashed Bear in Big Blue House...not to mention dooming the upcoming Fox show.

    You call me a D-head? You no longer seem to be the cool collective comrade you once were. It is clear youre only hear to be a scenester and a rabble rouser.

    >>>Luke, I have to agree with you buddy, a d*ckhead indeed. It would seem to this poster that beaker has lost all sense of what makes this forum a forum, namely the right to one's own opinion.<<<

    Daniel, don't get me started. Ive never had a problem with you, but now youre attacking me. Believe me, youve stated some some on this and other forums that have been less than well receptive. People use the expression the pot calling the kettle black...well, as it stands MC is rampant with sickening hypocrisy...
    quite a few have lost the idea of why your'e all on here.
     
  5. Luke

    Luke Active Member

    Cory,

    First off apologies for the mispelling of your name - i do usually spell it without the 'e' but i noticed that lots of other people were spelling it with the 'e' and thought i had it wrong. It would be useful to have it in your sig maybe seeing as it can be spelled two ways.

    Secondly i'm not getting into arguing with you - if all this stuff is really what you think then thats absolutely fine and your opinion. It's probably right to say i'm not the most enthusiastic person at times but then i tell it like it is, and when things are (in my opinion) good, i say so. It's too early to say anything about the Fox show - all i said was what i thought it would turn out like, and far from dooming it, i actually like the sound of that.

    It was wrong to call you what i did so sorry about that, but your words over the last couple of days (as i think multiple others have pointed out in multiple other threads) have been very strong and to the point where they start to get personal and annoy people. It's been fairly out of character for you, and you seem yourself to have changed your mind about a few things so i hope we can all get along whether we agree or disagree.

    I guess we all have our bad days !
     
  6. beaker

    beaker Well-Known Member

    >>>Secondly i'm not getting into arguing with you - if all this stuff is really what you think then thats absolutely fine and your opinion. It's probably right to say i'm not the most enthusiastic person at times but then i tell it like it is, and when things are (in my opinion) good, i say so. It's too early to say anything about the Fox show - all i said was what i thought it would turn out like, and far from dooming it, i actually like the sound of that.<<<

    Sorry to see some people not in on it all get scathed...I guess it was more a commentary on how fed up we were with people bad mouthing KSY, having seen it or not.

    Yes, you are one for telling it like it is! To be honest, some of your pessimistic views on Palisades line and the Fox show are far from mine, but that is why we have a forum!

    I guess it is time to turn our swords into plow penguin throwing!
     
  7. radionate

    radionate New Member

    Cory, have you ever thought about going into politics? You seem to have waffling down to an artform.
     
  8. beaker

    beaker Well-Known Member

    >>>Cory, have you ever thought about going into politics? You seem to have waffling down to an artform<<<

    Well, the ever evolving paradigm and shifty spin doctoring seems right up my alley right? Heh...The archetecural backbone of what makes a great forum or mouth piece online is the ability to 'evolve' one's thoughts. Cynicism has become so nested into our collective minds, no matter how much of the idea of 'Muppetdom' we hold dear. It's up to the individual to pick themselves out of that jaded cynical fog.

    And did you say Waffles? I'll take two! To people reading this wondering what the heck is going on...this Nate guy, Ive only chatted with him a few times online, but this is a cool guy in my book. If anybody wants to have a good conversation about music, IM Nate up.


    And did you say Waffles? I'll take two!
     
  9. radionate

    radionate New Member

    No doubt about it anymore, Cory is on drugs.
     
  10. beaker

    beaker Well-Known Member

    >>>No doubt about it anymore, Cory is on drugs<<<

    Because I actually enjoyed KSY dvd? Like I said, I did have a problem with some of the human acting, but its not the human actor's fault. I liked a good portion of the KSY movie itself(how could ya not love croaker???) but it was the extras that really made it shine.

    Hehe, and for the record I have never ever used drugs or smoked, nor will I ever. I guess it stems from being a kid of the late 80's!
     
  11. Luke

    Luke Active Member

    Maybe i see your views as pessimistic too Cory - certainly your stance on KSY up until today was extremely pessimistic. As for the Palisades line, i like it a lot now - but yes, i needed some convincing on some aspects and a lot of what has gone on is unlike stuff we've been through before. As for the Fox show i have no idea what you are talking about - i questioned how Fox would handle it when we were discussing how 'Greg' was handled by them way back, and i said that in my opinion i didn't think they would go for an all out edgy style, but more of a mix between new and old. I wasn't dissing it, and i don't feel thats a pessemistic view - i'd actually enjoy that and think it's the right approach.

    Please try to get your facts right before even beginning to imagine you are 'crossing swords' with me - basically i take it all in fun - you are entitled to your opinion and i've got mine. It's not a personal thing for me.
     
  12. radionate

    radionate New Member

    No Cory, I don't mean that you are on drugs to enjoy KSY. I mean you are just cracked out period. With this whole "it was a farce" routine.
     
  13. beaker

    beaker Well-Known Member

    Pessimism is a rocky road. It's a defense mechanism to be cautious...remember Muppetfest last year? I said no way in heck it would be cancelled, and you said there was a chance...and boom some billionare in the middle east cancelled everything.

    >>>>Please try to get your facts right before even beginning to imagine you are 'crossing swords' with me - basically i take it all in fun - you are entitled to your opinion and i've got mine. It's not a personal thing for me.<<<<

    Indeed, unfortunately I think a lot of people for get to take things all in fun. That's what were all here for, to discuss and have fun and inspire!
     
  14. Zack the Dog

    Zack the Dog Active Member

    Hi Luke,

    could this really happen? i mean the Muppets just disapearing like that, just think Kermit the Frog never seening the light of day again! i mean it would be just like if Bugs Bunny,Mickey Mouse or scooby doo were to just vanhising. there wouldn't be anyway possabile to keep the characters going? steve, dave, bill, Eric, jerry and everyone out there their jobs?

    if that were to happen, I don't think it ever would, but i'm not saying i don't belive that could happen, i just don't know much on that subject. i would hope Kermit would be then a reg on Sesame Street maybe even a few other classic muppet characters. Animal screem the ABC'S, Fozzie joke of the day, cooking heathly food with the swedish chef hosted by Rizzo the rat, Miss Piggy's Travle Trips, and Bean Bunny's World....wait a second?


    Zack)Rowlf the,The Muppets Move to Sesame Street, a new movie idea!!!but there already are Muppets on sesame street....well has the word "muppet" ever been said on Sesame street?Dog.
     
  15. Luke

    Luke Active Member

    Hey Zack,

    Yes, technically it could happen - but it's just one of about ten possible scenarios and one of the least likely. It could only really happen if something happened to EMTV before they had a chance to sell the Henson Company, they sold to somebody who didn't want to use the Muppets but wanted the Henson tape library, or if something happens much further down the line with the new owners that they decide to bench the characters. Thankfully there would be quite a lot of interest in JHC if it was available at a bargain basement price so all this should be prevented, even in an extreme situation but the point was that yes, it could possibly happen - so someone saying the Muppets are 'safe' from these kind of scenarios is just very misinformed.

    When the company was sold to EMTV, the Henson's lost most of their control over what can happen to the Muppets in the future - they are no longer in the hands of someone who might be concerned about how the characters are used by any new owner, they are being sold by a bank who just needs to get the most amount of money possible by any means neccasary. If you were a billionaire and wanted to buy the Muppets and keep them in your attic performing shows for you and only you then you could, and there's nothing anyone else could do about it.

    There are a couple of other similar properties in the UK (also traditional nostalgic childrens favorites) that have actually gone this way, and also others that have been bought by inexperienced companies who have totally misued them and ruined what the characters once had.
     
  16. Zack the Dog

    Zack the Dog Active Member

    Thanks Luke, that's pretty interesting, I would conster that worse case senrio,well, because it is.

    Oh, Luke, you didn't know??? I AM a billionaire! Thanks for that great idea! The Muppet are safe now in my extreamly large attic with full theather! Anyone want to come over to my house?!?! My mom baked muffins!!:D

    Maybe I don't have a Dr. Teeth repaint, but I have Dr. Teeth himself! Oh wait! i'm a billionaire, I now have 12 dr teeth repaints!;-)

    Zack)Rowlf the, Oh, I just feed the cat, do I have to feed the puppetieer's too Ma?Dog.
     
  17. beaker

    beaker Well-Known Member

    >>>they are being sold by a bank who just needs to get the most amount of money possible by any means neccasary. If you were a billionaire and wanted to buy the Muppets and keep them in your attic performing shows for you and only you then you could, and there's nothing anyone else could do about it.<<<

    There are people in the government who do virtual millitary strategy and worst case scenarios with computers. So in that sense, anything is possible if you wanna get out there. But to the above statement, I could write a 4000k email detailing a thousand reasons why this is absolutely implausible.
    That said, realisticly coming up is a very crucial time in Muppetdom.

    As the sale looms, it is not totally implausible to wake up, log onto MC, and read Variety reports financial disaster hits em.tv with a foreign bank holding all assets. This sort of thing happens(you referenced WWE in another thread...an din that case what I just described happened to ECW until WWE bought that out) So this becomes a question of the Muppets being at the mercy of a bank or company. I remember when it was reported on MC way back when about em.tv buying JHC. Boy was I mad, and even more mad when they sold all the Sesame rights solely to Sesame Workshop. Ugh. One need point to Formula One to see how em.tv handles things, and indeed press statements from em.tv had this big spiel about the possibilities they have with the Muppets.

    The strange thing is I would guess only people in media business, puppeteers, JHC employyes, and the online Muppet community even know a company called EM.TV owns the Muppets. EM.TV is never shown on any fine print or logo on Muppet products, and that's good. Disney on the other hand if they bought it...

    But to the basic fundamental question of the possibility of one day Muppetdom as we know ending, I say no. You can draw out all kinds of scenarios or 'what ifs'...but the basic fact is even though some uninformed people out there think the 'Muppets' are just some trend or nostalgic trip ala Garfield, Punky Brewster or HR Puffinstuff, they would be greatly mistaken. From kids in Washington DC going to malt shops circa 1950's to troops stationed in Vietnam circa 1970 given some comic relief from Muppet guest appearences on Ed Sullivan...to virtually every kid haven grown up on Sesame Street for 30 years plus...and to a lesser extent TMS, Muppet Babies, and FR...the Muppets have been delighting people for half a decade, and will be forever as time as we know it.
     
  18. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    Muppets Cheapest Movie? It sounds so much like a Monty Python idea!
     
  19. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    Also, I agree with Beaker's anger over EMTV returning the Sesame Characters to CTW. No we'll have no more "Connie Stevens type Muppet Show episodes with Sesame characters singing Musical numbers," No more "MFC crossover with ANimal and Cookie, or Oscar and Rizzo" (too bad! They'd make a great team!)

    EMTV did make a few bad discisions, but at least they didn't fade.

    Though, I'd have preferred if Henson found some sort of financial independence!
     
  20. Luke

    Luke Active Member

    Cory, if it's not too much trouble, could you let me know some of these reasons and back them up (in the business, not fan sense) with some facts. The scenario i mentioned is totally possible, and could definitely happen if other things went badly. Yes, the Muppets are big icons and part of history, and will forever remain within us, but that has absolutely NOTHING to do with the business side which is what we are talking about here - on paper they are a media property like any other and the stuff that could happen in the event of sale/bankruptcy is the same as what can and has happened to other media properties - this is what matters to a bank. The Muppets have absolutely no more protection than say 'The Transformers' do !

    It's all about money, that's it. If you have the cash, you could buy them and do what you liked. You seriously think that Allen & Co would say no to ANYONE who offered a high price for the company ? Thats just not how it works i'm afraid buddy. All we have to hope from a fan point of view is that the Muppets are bought by someone respectful of the brand, who will actually use them well, and someone who will have the resources to let the Henson Company do what they want to do in the future. That's not a 'given' though and we have no 'right' to say this must happen - for all we know another 'EMTV' style company could come along, or even the Henson kids, afraid of what will be done with the Muppets if they get into the wrong hands could buy them, retire them and stick them in some Henson museum because they are upset with the way the EMTV sale went and want to keep their dads characters secure.

    All this is not what i think should happen to them, or what i want to happen to them but my point is that they have no actual protection against this from happening, and that we should be aware of the risk. Just turning a blind eye or kidding yourself could provide an awful suprise one day !
     


Share This Page