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Muppet Haunted Hotel

Discussion in 'Muppet Appearances' started by MuppetVison, Aug 29, 2002.

  1. beaker

    beaker Well-Known Member

    >>>All this is not what i think should happen to them, or what i want to happen to them but my point is that they have no actual protection against this from happening, and that we should be aware of the risk. Just turning a blind eye or kidding yourself could provide an awful suprise one day !<<<

    I know it's your job to be mr. cynical on here, that's fine. But instead of a massive email reasons of why this is implasuible...I direct you to Variety magazine December 1995, a 40 years of the Muppets celebration. Every other page is filled with a huge ad from virtually ever kind of company thanking the JHC for so many years of goodness. At the live show, I saw jaded business man losing them selves in the awe and splendor of bearing witness to a live Muppet show. I offer the explanation to every parent out there raised on Sesame Street and TMS and FR, and explain that to them and their kid 'Well, we bought the Muppets and retired them'. It goes on and on, but I believe with all valour, honour, love, and reality that the Muppets are set to such a degree...that beyond the government cutting funding to PBS or emtv shockingly heading under one day...the Muppets are here to stay, no matter what kind of 'doomsday' scenario you can draw up.

    You as a fan I would hope would take up proverbial arms over such an auspicious scenario.

    >>>Also, I agree with Beaker's anger over EMTV returning the Sesame Characters to CTW. No we'll have no more "Connie Stevens type Muppet Show episodes with Sesame characters singing Musical numbers," No more "MFC crossover with ANimal and Cookie, or Oscar and Rizzo" (too bad! They'd make a great team!)<<<

    word. Or I could point to MFC as well!
     
  2. Luke

    Luke Active Member

    Ok so as i'm Mr Cynical on here, i'll debate this with you (note the word debate and not argue). Your explanation seems to be that the Muppets are so great and so established that nobody would dare do something like this because it would just be so bad and affect the entire population. As a fan i can totally accept and applaud that - my problem with it is that it's a warm and fuzzy thing to think but unfortunately the people who own the Muppets now aren't all that warm and fuzzy. Lets turn your own argument around a bit and ask of Brian Henson and the other Henson children "What kind of person are you selling your fathers characters which are pretty much American institutions to a German media company with not the greatest of moral or business backgrounds ?". I think they would probably turn round and say to you that the company was in trouble and that they had to make the best possible buisness decision to ensure the company didn't go down and they'd lose their entire investment. Basically - it's business, and if Henson's own kids saw it that way, i have a feeling someone like EMTV or Allen & Co won't play any nicer.

    Nobody is disagreeing that the Muppets haven't achieved great things, or that there isn't future potential in them, and even the people in control of the Muppets right now would agree with you on that. The thing is they are a business, and one in severe trouble at that. To them, it's the figure on the cheque that matters right now - not how the company will be run or who will run it. Believe me, they would have absolutely no problem signing the Muppets away to a company who were going to have them advertise diapers, or just lock the Muppets away and exploit only the tape library. They wouldn't even bother explaining to people why they did it, heck they don't even speak the same language. EMTV didn't buy the Muppets because they were big fans or that they cared about the brand - they were advised it would be a good investment to help them achieve their aims. Do you know the guy that owned Nintendo hardly ever played a video game yet he made billions out of it.

    This is business, cold and hard. It's not particularly 'doomsday' situations or the totally implausible. The stuff i'm talking about has happened to other massively popular properties without much thought for the fans. I hope to god this all doesn't happen, and that someone like Disney gets them and actually keeps them alive and keeps using them - but i can't be sure, nobody can. You bet your bippy i'd be shouting if crap like this happened to the Muppets but in my heart, i'd know that our characters are the property of somebody else and it was their right to do what they liked with them - i guess the blame there lies with the people that signed away the Henson Company to EMTV - at that point i think we lost any sense of them ever being 'safe' or really being part of the Henson family again but i guess they had their reasons and we shall see if we get a happy ending out of this.

    As for EMTV 'shockingly' going under one day ...... well i've seen EMTV for myself and there's nothing shocking about that. I'd be suprised if they last another six months and this is why we have to hope they will sell Henson quickly and onto someone suitable (Rivkin's backer is yet another German company) - i'm told the sale might go through in November now, after a couple of failed attempts - so my fingers are crossed.
     
  3. beaker

    beaker Well-Known Member

    Hey Luke!

    Your response on this matter for some reason seemed very logical...maybe I had misread what you said before, but it did hit home when you said 'em.tv' was a business decision and of conveinence, not a 'oh they would be perfect!'

    Remember on TP when I said one of these days as Muppet fans we could log on, and find that the poop has hit the fan in regards to finding out em.tv went under all the sudden?(ie: muppets sold off , etc)

    I had been trying to say the same things you have been saying in this thread...oh how blinded with passion for an idea I have become.

    I think I got obsessed on this idea of, well 'celebration' rather than an ugly businness truth or possibility...that I was arguing over a point that I not to long ago was uttering.

    You of all people like me and everyone on here knows the Muppets arent just some retro fad popping back in for a small time like some other properties. Of course you also know the rough seas of the business world more than quite a few of us.

    I apologize for taking things out of tone and spirit last week about various things Luke. Looking back perhaps you signal caution over the years on Mc, not outright doom or pessimism.
    Heck, if you recall I was being a ****** saying 'NO! Muppetfest will not be cancelled" and you said theires a realistic possibility. And then MF was postponned. IS this a concession speech? Naw, more of a friendly bow;)

    I just really hope disney bails JHC out, as that emtv thing is too unstable at this time...especially when what I believe to be the heralded return is to take place next year.
     
  4. Luke

    Luke Active Member

    Hey Cory,

    No apologies needed - i probably do seem very cold and cynical on all this EMTV sale stuff but it's pretty hard not to be when you've seen for yourself how these kind of companies treat things. I think i'd rather be the person seeing this from the total (some would say blind) 'fan' opinion, but at least as informed fans we are aware of what could come and vent our feelings against it. I dunno - i think it's a great shame we have gone past the point where it's all about the shows or characters and just as much about the boardroom. The Muppets definitely don't deserve all this, but in the unlikely event crap happens at least we have seen from Farscape that the people at Henson are honest with the fans and support action. It's probably about two years too late though - Brian's letter to Henson employee's still sticks in my mind promising people's jobs were safe and that EMTV were a family company, dedicated to the brand and excited about new shows and products. It didn't really turn out like that, and i'm sure there are lots of things we don't know about that led to that state of events so it's hard to blame anyone, but whether the Henson kids just took an amount of money they couldn't refuse or they had a ship sinking with debt on their hands that they had to offload, it must have been a massive decision for them to have done what they did.
     
  5. beaker

    beaker Well-Known Member

    >>>No apologies needed - i probably do seem very cold and cynical on all this EMTV sale stuff but it's pretty hard not to be when you've seen for yourself how these kind of companies treat things. <<<

    Oh Luke...warm fuzzy hugs is what ya gonna get! Im grateful you and Nate snapped me out of my KSY preconcieved notions...now I happily watch the Joe segments daily;)
    And this...I totally understand you know man.

    It's like a wrestling mark and an insider. I enjoyed wrestleing better when I was a mark. But in regards to the Muppets, Im not an insider, but even if one were I could see how its hard to always see things from a fan view only.

    I think i'd rather be the person seeing this from the total (some would say blind) 'fan' opinion, but at least as informed fans we are aware of what could come and vent our feelings against it. I dunno - i think it's a great shame we have gone past the point where it's all about the shows or characters and just as much about the boardroom. <<<

    It is sad...all this uncertainty. My sincerest apologies Luke to any unkind or misguided words said. I know we have gone back and forth, and you always end up having a very concrete and rationale reason behind your words. You are a true pillar of the online Muppet community, and I thank you for fully explaining this sale discussion.

    Right now I am so in awe of the new site design...I dont know what more else to say^_^
     
  6. radionate

    radionate New Member

    Luke has made very valid points, and I'm glad you understand them now Cory. While I agree with him that it is a very unlikely senerio, the truth is that the video library could be a cash cow if the company is sold for the right price.

    What I think we need to be prepared for now is the breaking apart of the company, as Luke has talked about in the past. It is not going to surprise me in the least if the Creature Shop is sold to a seperate company. Thats just my gut feeling anymore. Time will tell though.
     
  7. beaker

    beaker Well-Known Member

    >>>It is not going to surprise me in the least if the Creature Shop is sold to a seperate company. Thats just my gut feeling anymore. Time will tell though.
    <<<

    That move wouldnt surprise me wither...with Creature Shop involved in some of 2001's biggest films, the recent Farscape news, this is a very plausible scenario. The Sesame Street news upset me, but to me Sesame will always be JHC.
     
  8. Bean Bunny

    Bean Bunny New Member

    I wasn't be surpurise if Eisner try to the buy the Muppets to show the Disney executives that he still has the touch. Of cource, in the news right Disney not Pixar is playing hardball with when the deal expires next year after Finding Nemo. You see Disney has signed a deal with a new CGI studio from the producer of Shrek, who will produced the films in America and animated it in England thrus it will cost less to make a film than it take Pixar.

    With that said, Disney ever with it's current situation probably could still buy Henson.
     
  9. kansasteen14

    kansasteen14 New Member

    actually bean Disney and Pixar still have 3 movies including finding nemo.and I hope that DIsney bails that muppets out
     
  10. beaker

    beaker Well-Known Member

    My gosh, Im actually agreeing with Kantastseen!
    Hmmm...

    Yes, after reviewing the current state of JHC and Luke's points, a Disney buyout looms.
     
  11. Bean Bunny

    Bean Bunny New Member

    I know but in 2003 during Finding Nemo's release, Pixar can start negolating for a new deal with Disney or someone else. After Finding Nemo, Pixar still has The Invicbles and Cars for Disney.
     
  12. Luke

    Luke Active Member

    Actually no, it's not looking like Disney. There is definitely something going on sale wise right now and it's been expected to go through for a while. I'm not sure if that means theres a deal on the table or theres gonna be some bidding process - i would think the former. If it was Disney it would have been leaked or we would have at least heard something more.
     
  13. Bean Bunny

    Bean Bunny New Member

    If Disney was in better fincinal shape right now, I am guessing they would have went for the Muppets but who knows the world works in mysteryious ways.
     
  14. beaker

    beaker Well-Known Member

    While there are some rumors going around, for many of us it will come down to coming onto MC one day and finding out the big news in regards to the sale.

    As for the Pixar/Disney thing...Im none to excited about this fish movie, as 2003 would have been perfect to launch a Toy Story 3(providing you go by the Toy Story film every 4 years)
     
  15. radionate

    radionate New Member

    I think Toy Story 3 will never happen. I doubt they could ever find a story worthy enough to tell with those characters again. But I could be wrong. One interesting idea would be to have the gang together when Andy has children of his own, where both Buzz and Woody would be "old outdated" toys. But I doubt any of the magic of the first two films could be repeated.
     
  16. Luke

    Luke Active Member

    We'll have to see who actually breaks the news eh ? I guess there's a lot more competition nowdays. Toughpigs seems to do a heavy amount of news breaking lately !
     
  17. kansasteen14

    kansasteen14 New Member

    actually I have heard they have a script for Toy Story 3,and I was also shocked beaker.anyway you are right bean as the company that ade shrek has signed with Disney which P.O.ed me
     
  18. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    Well, if the Shrek studio's movies flop, the'll go crawling back to Pixar! Heh hehe heh!!!!

    I sure hope they do make Toy Story 3 (I'd really like to see them try to incorperate XR, Mira, and Booster into the plot). I mean, the first one was so good, the second one was better. It was so much better, I can't get that "aaaahhh" feeling that I got when I saw the first one. And it's too bad they can't make a Monsters Inc. 2 now (the possibility, is that Boo is all grown up now, and .. well, if you didn't see it yet, I can't say anymore) Bugs life 2 however, is improbable, and I don't think it would work.
     
  19. kansasteen14

    kansasteen14 New Member

    yeah I would also like to see at least XR as he is like a toy already and Monsters Inc needs a sequel just from that ending
     
  20. scott

    scott New Member

    OK, back on the Haunted Hotel subject, I did get the plot info and such, though I am not at liberty to divulge the information. But unlike the early assumption Beaker said, this isn't really anything like scary movie. The plotline was pretty interesting, and it could be very great.
     

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