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Muppets Lost Promos

Discussion in 'Muppet Appearances' started by uppitymuppity, May 6, 2010.

  1. frogboy4

    frogboy4 Inactive Member

    I loves me some Steve!

    I've been a Muppet fan since before seeing TMM in the theater at the age of 5 and can safely claim uber-fandom for close to all of my 36 years on the planet. I know what clip you're talking about, but I am also aware of your well-noted distain for Steve's Kermit. I’ve seen even Jim slip into some un-kermit-like facial ticks and lack-luster performances here and there through the years. It happens to the best puppeteers, but Steve doesn’t do the duck face at all as claimed in that Lost bumper. Yes, Steve’s Kermit is a little different because the character comes from a different place in him. I’m sure he’s aware of all of the performance nuances and over the course of 20 solid years has crafted this particular persona. His years in the trenches have earned him the privilege of performing the frog the way he and the Muppet team sees fit. It's confirmed that Steve is Kermit now and will be for quite a while in the future. It’s no secret how you feel, but belaboring the opinion won’t accomplish anything except darkening the mood around here. There's a choice to make of either complaining about it ad nauseum or moving on to focus on the things you like about Kermit and the Muppets.
  2. theprawncracker

    theprawncracker Well-Known Member

    Exactly. Especially in this HUGELY exciting time in the Muppet world where everything is going right for the gang, we really don't need such persistent naysayers harking on the leading frog who, quite frankly, has been fantastic recently. We all understand your opinion by now, Frogster, but at this point you're preaching to empty pews. Everyone else has accepted Steve as Kermit since he has continually performed the frog wonderfully for 20 years. All your complaining is doing is, like Jamie said, bringing a small cloud over the bright, sunny future the Muppets are making for themselves. I think it's time to move on.
  3. RedPiggy

    RedPiggy Well-Known Member

    I'll just say that Kermit's reaction is how I felt watching the ending, though I wanted to strangle something too.
  4. ZeppoAndFriends

    ZeppoAndFriends Well-Known Member


    I told them no good could come of this show, but they didn't listen! And look what happened! :cry:
  5. Super Scooter

    Super Scooter Well-Known Member

    Look closely. Steve DOES have Kermit at Jim's angle throughout most of the video. Obviously when Kermit has to look up at the writers, his look's going to change a little. If there is any issue here, it's the camera angle. But, honestly, I think he looks fine... in fact, he looks pretty darn good here to me!

    Love the reaction at the end! Definitely something Jim would have done. For you "old school Muppet fans," you'll recognize that Jim loved this sort of thing, scrunching up his characters in weird ways all the time. It was perfect.

    Great work as always, Steve!
  6. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    That's the thing that always bugs me. People complain that they don't see X anymore and then when they bring them back, "Oh... that's what it's gonna be like, now?" Then complain about new characters filling gaps left by characters that can't be recast. I keep recalling what Dave Goelz said that one time... Steve wouldn't even take Kermit out of the box for a while. And Ernie was silent 3 years on SS. Steve's characters were always pretty frantic... Rizzo and Wembley to be sure. And a character comes deep down from within the performer, so taking someone else's character over isn't easy. That's why certain characters bounced from performer to performer. Heck, season 1 Muppet Show no one knew who would take on the role of Piggy completely. I know what Frogster's talking about, but I really don't see anything but Kermit anymore.

    heh... someone who watches the show. I heard about the ending second hand... but really... I'm GLAD I never got into it. That was just a huge Smoo to the audience that made the show what it was for 6 years or so. Still, at least that show got to actually finish it's cockamamie ending. A lot of these big, ambitious shows get creamed before their time, before they can finish telling their story.... like Pushing Daisies.
  7. Mupp

    Mupp Well-Known Member

    I have to agree. :)
  8. dwayne1115

    dwayne1115 Well-Known Member

    I think if you listen to Steve's interview on the MuppetCast, and hear the pure passion, and thought that he has put into Kermit, and all the Muppets that it will change how you look at Steve, and Kermit.

    I have read a lot of interviews about what the Muppets, JHC, and Sesame should have done since Jim's passing. The thing that strikes me the most is that within all the companys they have tried to stray away from that as much as posable. because they would sure make misstake after mistake.
  9. Frogster

    Frogster Well-Known Member

    I think the reason some people absolutely LOVE the Muppets today is because, whether they realize it or not, they're happy to just have ANY Muppets. There have been a few things over the past 20 years that I've really enjoyed, but ever since I've been on this site, seems like every month someone says, "We're in the heyday of Muppets." Yes, sometimes there's a resurgence of stuff that comes out but the heydays have long since passed. We're down to internet videos and half-reared kiddie specials where the cameos are by D-List celebrities. Want proof? Muppets From Space had Kathy Griffin, and I'm sure most of us know the name of the show she's on. That was in 1999, and they haven't really been big enough for the longest time to get good stars. Wanna get some real stars? Think Gerard Butler, Steve Carell, Jennifer Aniston... people like that. I'm not saying Steve and Eric need to be just like Jim and Frank, but if they could at least inhibit half of their character personalities- instead of just playing exaggerated versions of Kermit and Piggy (Kermit's "I'm just an everyday frog" and Piggy's constant anger)- then yeah I'd probably be okay with them. You guys have said so yourself, they've given their characters something new. Well if it isn't broke don't fix it. Now, this isn't to say they're terrible all the time. I like Steve's Beaker and Statler, and I like Bill Baretta's Rowlf (he needs to work a bit on Dr. Teeth). And ya know, even Brian Henson did a great job with Scooter in VMMCM. These people aren't failures at trying to re-vamp the Muppets, they just need to get more into the actual personalities. But it's been 20 years... in the words of Gonzo, "Why start now?"
  10. Super Scooter

    Super Scooter Well-Known Member

    "Down to internet videos?" Like it or not, YouTube is more popular than any television station, I'd bet. And at 14 million views, the Muppets are back to The Muppet Show style audience!

    No one's said anything about the Muppets being in their "heyday." We know when that was. However, the Muppet revolution is upon us. The Muppet resurgance has begun, and people are taking to it.
  11. Mupp

    Mupp Well-Known Member

    Pessimism is not going to do any good at this point.

    I feel that it is important to remain cautiously optimistic.
  12. Super Scooter

    Super Scooter Well-Known Member

    Yes, cautiously optimistic. The same way one might eat KFC. ;)
  13. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    If they have a TV show it's not good enough... if they have a movie, it's not good enough. Like it or not, these videos are the best thing they've done in 20 years because they get the luxury of fooling about and having fun, the way they were originally intended. They have room to be creative. Not like a TV show or movie that has to have some idiotic demographic leading to the toothlessness of projects like MFS, which basically Sony and the hack director thought were Sesame Street. And even if they do get some other project, we'll be whining about how it's not exactly like the first movie, or how it's not exactly like the John Cleese episode... I really don't know what people want. Even if you have EVERY single creative mind behind something, whos to say it's even gonna be all that good? George Lucas... Star Wars prequels... need I say more. At least let them TRY. It's a craptacular market glutted with reality shows and shallow movies with shallow feel good messages in between product placement after product placement. Even the Muppets at their WORST are a billion times better than half the crap shooting out of Hollow-wood at the moment. Really... a Marmaduke movie with the plot recycled from the Underdog movie which was recycled from Firehouse Dog? Even Muppet Oz was clever compaired to that. And hey, if you don't like it, there's always the horrible Parody movie that crams EVERY movie that came out in the last year into a fart and people falling over extravaganza! I mean, Clumsy Batman falling over and hitting farting Jack Sparrow? That;s so much fun! I'll never know how they managed to make that funnier and fresher than Clumsy Incredible Hulk falling over and hitting farting Willy Wonka!

    It's a garbage market, and any bright shining jewel's gonna get crushed by it and become one of it. They're run by dreamkilling junk collectors that play favorites with people with zero talent. Even if the Muppets were at the top of their game with Jim at the helm, they'd still manage to ruin it somehow.
  14. Reevz1977

    Reevz1977 Well-Known Member

    Gerard Butler?:confused::p
  15. frogboy4

    frogboy4 Inactive Member

    Hehe. Yeah, I agree that Butler isn't quite A-list, but I do like him.

    Only Steve Carell is still an A-lister of those mentioned and it seems that this new move will get A-listers. Yes, the Golden Age of the Muppets is over, but there are other precious metals that can be applied to this new age of Muppety goodness. It's not nor ever could be what it was, but it is evolving into something good. The brand now has the talent, the funding, the studio, the interest, the direction and the fanbase all at the same time. That really hasn't happened since Jim. In fact, toward the end Jim wasn't having an easy time keeping the Muppets relevant either. That's a big part of what the Disney deal was about. The internet segments aren't only huge, they get back to the Muppet roots of what made them good in the first place. :attitude:
  16. Mupp

    Mupp Well-Known Member

    Good point.
    Its like we've got a Internet version of The Muppet Show. :)
  17. Super Scooter

    Super Scooter Well-Known Member

    The Muppets are among a minority. The characters grow and evolve. They change as the years pass on. You're right. Kermit isn't the same as he was when Jim performed him. But have you ever compared early Sesame Street Kermit with The Muppet Show Kermit? Or The Muppet Show Kermit with The Jim Henson Hour Kermit? The character changed a lot between SS and TMS. He changed, though not quite so dramatically, between TMS and JHH. Go back even farther, did you ever see Hey, Cinderella? Kermit's barely recognizable there! Even comparing TMS season 1 Kermit to season 5 Kermit you see a major change in the character. You could hardly say he was ever broken, but they still "fixed" him.

    And on Eric's Fozzie... I prefer him a ton to the dumbed-down version that Frank's had become. Don't get me wrong. Frank is the master, and I truly do wish he'd never retired from the Muppets. But when he was only lending his voice, poor Fozzie suffered. I'm actually still getting used to Eric's Piggy, but I think the only issue with her is the material. There was an interview with her a while back that was absolutely perfect. Eric was brilliant as Piggy in it, and I'm sure that it is the sort of thing we can expect more of from him.
  18. Frogster

    Frogster Well-Known Member

    You're right. Kermit isn't the same as he was when Jim performed him. But have you ever compared early Sesame Street Kermit with The Muppet Show Kermit? Or The Muppet Show Kermit with The Jim Henson Hour Kermit? The character changed a lot between SS and TMS.

    That's actually an excellent point. Kermit evolved quite a bit from Hey, Cinderella to The Jim Henson Hour but you know what separates Jim from Steve? Well first and foremost, it's Jim's character and personality. But secondly, Jim actually improved. While Jim wasn't always perfect, there weren't any painful moments by him that I can remember. It's actually tough watching Steve do Kermit for me personally. It's embarrassing. And it's embarrassing because, here's this iconic puppet frog that had more character, personality and depth than most fictional characters; someone who could resonate with anyone at any age, and after the performer passes away, he's handed to someone who brings him down several pegs to where it seems only children find him truly appealing. It's even the little things that he's done with Kermit, like keeping the hands positioned way too high or scrunching the face up too much.

    The worst of it is, he turned Kermit into this, "Hey everyone let's all get along, sing, and listen to me talk about either Miss Piggy or how I'm just a little ol' frog. And I'll do it all while seeming foppish, air-headed and one-dimensional ." It's intolerable, and Piggy's nearly the same way now. Kermit is now pretty much like the hot yet dim-witted girl you'd meet at a bar. Looks appealing at first, but when either of them start talking, you see there's no substance.
  19. antsamthompson9

    antsamthompson9 Well-Known Member

    Kermit always did the duck face. Look at this clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYvHFzB5BdQ.
  20. Mupp

    Mupp Well-Known Member

    It would seem that you missed the Kermit's Commentary video of Muppets Bohemian Rhaspsody, Kermit lost his cool at the end of the commentary;

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