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Save the Muppets

Discussion in 'On the Web' started by Daylight, Sep 1, 2005.

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  1. Morgan Clueless

    Morgan Clueless Well-Known Member

    In all honesty, I don't really care about what they do. As long as the Muppets are still themselves (or as close to them as the newer performers can make them), I'm fine with it. I may not even be old enough to drive, let alone economic-related downsides to the project, but I still understand why you don't like it. I'm not saying I'm for the One Voice issue, but I'm not completely against it, either.

    Ever since my "obsession" for the Muppets had started (about one or two months ago), I've yearned to get into the field of puppetry, and I wished for an oppurtunity like this to come up sometime in the future, when I graduated from college. Unfortunately, I can't even make a straight stitch with thread, let alone build a puppet. I'm not great with impersonating characters' voices or making up my own--not to mention that I've never dealt with puppets as advanced as the Muppets--so I never found myself as a good performer.

    Maybe others feel the same way, and still want to try, no matter what. Or maybe there are expert performers who want to get a chance to do what they love for a lifetime. And with this audition, some have probably already found their oppurtunity to try.

    I know I'm not making a lot of sense, but if you at least allow the big-wig guys--or whoever's idea this was--the chance to at least try, things might not be so bad in the future for the Muppets. :)

    - Morgan "Clueless" Goat
  2. Fozzie Bear

    Fozzie Bear Well-Known Member

    First of all, I'm disappointed in the turn of events here. Everything has been mostly professional until the last couple of pages. That's all just yucky.

    I absolutely won't stand for anybody blatantly talking about other fans, however I assumed that discussions otherwise were only of opinion or hearsay which is why I haven't said anything about that. As was pointed out, I am a moderator here and I am bound by the rules of MC. The rule is we can't talk about the personal lives of the performers or be ubercritical of their work unless it is also constructive.

    On a professional level, you can consider that folks who auditioned did so out of disrespect for the performers who've been around forever and a day. I auditioned, but not out of disrespect for their tenure and talent but for a job doing something I love. Everything I know points that they won't be out of a job--problem is: If the job isn't there they don't get work. Right now, MHC is not planning ANYTHING for them to work in except appearances, and being a part of The Diz they aren't going to take suggestions for shows/movies/specials.

    The people we admire and love from all these years won't be losing their jobs to these newcomers (frankly, Diz had folks down there for the workshop and ultimately had no idea how to use them when the weekend was over--except that some of the final ones they kept from the few they brought down had already worked with the Muppets in the past).

    On the other hand (get it?!), those of us who know something from someone will end up posting what we know but we cannot divulge our sources. While someone is saying soemthing in their post it may be of the opinion of someone else or it may be the knowledge someone else has pointed out. We can also ignore the fact that if someone posts something correctly and deny it. I would deny my sources if it protected them, darn tootin'; on the other hand, it could be someone I have no connection to. Thing is, on the 'net nobody's gonna know!

    That was a long way to say that if someone posts of their opinion or hearsay it's not necessarily slanderous, but we shouldn't say things as a fact if we aren't for sure. And, there again, we can suggest our opinions of what we think or know without calling out particular names, and definitly will hopefully stop folks from seemingly calling each other out. It ain't pretty.

    So, is what anybody is discussing here from either side of the argument even sure that what they are saying really is of fact or opinion? I use these as an example since they are the most posted names in this thread: Kynan could be posting things he knows but some other parts are opinion; Overunderaround is posting some opinion and could know something, too. On the other hand, who else has posted with opinion or knowledge? Who has it and won't share because they don't want to be in the discussion? It's the whole "Are ghosts real?" question: What do YOU think? We can talk in circles all day long if it's real or not, but it's left up to the final person to decide. Arguing a topic doesn't help anything, responding with "Why I believe..." and leaving it there is probably the best way to gain peoples' attention and respect. I don't want folks to fuss about all this mess.

    The whole argument is one big circle and folks can argue the point all day for or against the whole audition thing. When it boils down to it at this time: The auditions have happened, all 3 cities were visited (along with SW) and the Orlando Muppets Workshop has happened.

    MHC has no idea how to use the Muppets (apparently, as we haven't seen anything yet but appearances), and that being the case there are no jobs--without the jobs the tenured performers are without work and that is not because of the very few who were kept after the Orlando Workshops. I believe that STM believes in what it stands for (not just Kynan but all who have signed the petition) and is a group dedicated to a purpose. But, when all this comes around (here I go back into the whole "circle" discussion again) everything they wanted to see NOT happen has happened already and I think a new vision for the group should take place.

    And you can bet that whatever you've read or heard from SW people, they weren't on that trip with MHC for those auditions just to vacation. I'll bet very soon you're going to start hearing about their auditions and the whole screening-down process. Why? Because they, too, are a corporate entity. Question is: When they get those folks auditioned and chosen, will they know what to do with them?

    I see the argument from both sides and understand all opinions (and since I'm still sleepy this morning and in a rush to get my day started most of what I said may be hypocritical or sound like Dr. Seuss--or I may never have explained something correctly).

    I'm just under the opinion that there is a happy medium, one that can be discussed without all the tension. There's got to be a more positive way to post our opinions and suggestions to gain attention and move people in our individual ways of thinking without all the fussing.

    besides the fact that it would be just WAY too much work for me, I can't edit posts, delete posts, or restart this thread because too many people on such a hot topic would be disappointed and accuse me of favoritism or bigotry (?), so I hope we can go forward with this discussion and everyone please not be accusatory or attack each other on any level.

    There are professional and positive ways to discuss something without falling apart, gang. When it boils down to it, we're all fans of one man's work and that's what brings us here--not the arguments and not the discussions of who is right and who is wrong.
  3. Fozzie Bear

    Fozzie Bear Well-Known Member

    BTW: Disclaimer: I reserve the right to retract, restate, or sway my own opinion as I feel necessary. :) After all, I'm a moderator, but also a fan with opinions and ideas, so...yeah.
  4. a_Mickey_Muppet

    a_Mickey_Muppet Well-Known Member

  5. Chilly Down

    Chilly Down Well-Known Member

  6. Muppet Matt

    Muppet Matt Well-Known Member

  7. OverUnderAround

    OverUnderAround Well-Known Member

    I believe this is the link Mickey Muppet meant to post:


    It's disheartening to read. But I know they, like us, love the Muppets as well and I'd like to believe that most of what was posted over there was done so in a moment of poking fun. We are all brothers and sisters that have a common love for the Muppets, in that we can all agree. And as a whole we should remember the positive good nature of what Jim Henson and Jane Henson have preached. And continue to post messages that if Jim were alive would be proud to read.

    In conclusion, I'd like to apologize to Kynan. I'm sorry for the outburst the other day my Aussie brother. We both have strong point/counterpoint opinions but brother we do share a common love in the Muppets and hopefully in the long run that love will make the Muppets once more flourish in time.

    I hope everyone has a good week.
  8. a_Mickey_Muppet

    a_Mickey_Muppet Well-Known Member

    Yeeep OverUnderAround thats the link i ment to post! :smirk:
  9. Chilly Down

    Chilly Down Well-Known Member

    Well said, OverUnderAround! We all get worked up emotionally about our beloved Muppets from time to time. If I said anything that was over the line here or on TP, I too apologize.
  10. I also agree that what was said on that ToughPigs topic was totally unnecessary!

    Shouldn't fans stick together?
  11. a_Mickey_Muppet

    a_Mickey_Muppet Well-Known Member

    from the TP board...

    **Or it's just the oppisite! I mean, they might know Jim is dead, but they couldn't pick out Richard Hunt from a line up of Jerry Nelson! Or Steve Whitmire from a group of Brian Hensons. They don't *know* so they just don't *care*.**

    what the heck does that mean??!!! :attitude: I know (and I can pick and pick out the voice's) from Jerry, Richard, Steve, Jim and Frank. we NEED to deleate (or close) this thread! :sympathy:
  12. Chilly Down

    Chilly Down Well-Known Member

    I agree, Phillip. But remember that people here at MC said some nasty, hurtful, and unfair things about TPers first. That thread was a reaction to this one.

    I think this is a very touchy subject, and I agree that the whole matter should probably be dropped.
  13. Fozzie Bear

    Fozzie Bear Well-Known Member

    Apparently I'm hard to understand in my late-night or early morning postings! Ha ha. Ouch. Anyhow, the whole topic just goes in one big circle. Some for, some against. Does it really matter in the end? Well, yeah--individually our own opinions will matter.

    I appreciate that I'm considered trying to be a nice guy and all that, but it isn't so much that folks from one forum are talking about folks at another as much as it is that all this bickering between the two places and all this pointing fingers and such...it's not in the soul of what we all learned from when Jim Henson was around. Nothing on either forum lately seems to be.

    I kept this thread open hoping that friendly debate could happen, and it hasn't. And nothing has come of it. Nothing good, anyways. Just stuff that can hurt each others' feelings. It's not good. It's not fun. It definitely isn't why I go to post on the message boards and the feeling from one thread will bleed over into another thread.

    I'm going to close this thread, but not delete it, and I hope in the future we can have some friendly debates about such topics and not have folks naming, pointing, or calling each other out.

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