1. Welcome to the Muppet Central Forum!
    You are viewing our forum as a guest. Join our free community to post topics and start private conversations. Please contact us if you need help with registration or your account login.

  2. "Muppet Guys Talking" Debuts On-line
    Watch the inspiring documentary "Muppet Guys Talking", read fan reactions and let us know your thoughts on the Muppet release of the year.

  3. Sesame Street Season 48
    Sesame Street's 48th season officially began Saturday November 18 on HBO. After you see the new episodes, post here and let us know your thoughts.

Save the Muppets

Discussion in 'On the Web' started by Daylight, Sep 1, 2005.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

  1. Please stop referring to Disney as penny-pinchers all the time! It's gotten old...especially because Eisner the Miser is now out of the picture.
  2. Fozzie Bear

    Fozzie Bear Well-Known Member

    Don't talk rude about people who are also fellow Muppets fans. If you don't like it there, just don't go; but, don't bring negativity into Muppet Central. I've been fighting the negativity around here for a while now and I want it to stay OUT of these message boards.

    Talking rude to and about other people is against the messages that Jim tried to express, ultimately, and I intend to uphold his teachings.

    As religious as that might sound.

    Kev, Mod
  3. I'm sorry about that.
  4. Fozzie Bear

    Fozzie Bear Well-Known Member

  5. Kynan Barker

    Kynan Barker New Member

    A response from Save The Muppets

    It's been pointed out that I’ve been absent from this thread for a while. It can be hard work slogging through all these posts and sorting the real stuff from the craziness.

    In response to Marky, Mickey Muppet and others: As Over Under Around has pointed out, no, I’m not a kid. And I’m confused as to why so many people are assuming I’m a bitter rejected auditionee: I’ve made it very clear that I chose not to audition. I have nothing to hide; my arguments are all based on logic and real information, and I’m much more interested in debating the issues than I am in refuting unfounded accusations about my motivations.

    I’m sure I’d have a lot more to say to Marky, Mickey Muppet et al if their arguments were less personally insulting, and a lot less badly written.

    Kevin made reference to Sesame Workshop’s Carol-Lynn Parente’s statement in apparent support of the One Muppet, One Voice concept, but dismissed it because of Sesame Workshop’s presence at the auditions.

    Carol-Lynn is the current Executive Producer and show-runner of Sesame Street; she’s in no way misinformed about the Workshop’s policy. Sesame Workshop was present at Disney’s casting calls, but they weren’t looking for substitute performers. They were just saving themselves a bunch of money by taking a free peek at auditions that someone else had paid for.

    That’s why our campaign was never worried about Sesame Workshop -- their attitude is reflected accurately by Carol Lynn’s quote: “One performer, one Muppet. Performers bring the characters to life, and they must be respected.”

    Over Under Around started strong by pointing out correctly that I’m not a kid, but then went and ruined everything with this stuff:

    As it happens, I have had some personal contact with Jim Lewis, who’s a great guy, but I can assure all you folks here that Jim Lewis is not behind Save The Muppets.

    As for Steve, Dave and Bill, I’ve met each of them once, at MuppetFest, under the same circumstances that a lot of other fans did. I lined up, got some stuff signed, and shook them firmly by the hand. I did the same with Brian Henson, Jerry Nelson, Karen Prell and a nice young man named Josh Cohen, who happened to be performing Bear that day.

    None of them is behind Save The Muppets either.

    Now this is the part which is not only flat-out wrong, but also perilously close to libellous:

    Wow. I mean, it’s one thing to accuse me of being someone’s puppet (see what I did there?). But to assign questionable motivations to people for something they didn’t do, well, that’s just cuckoo. Steve, Dave and Bill are not connected to Save The Muppets. Which makes your speculation that their non-existent involvement stems from anger, ego or bitterness not just wrong, but really incredibly offensive.

    I find it extremely disappointing that Kevin reprimanded Philip Kippel for saying rude things about Muppet fans, while Over Under Around’s outrageous slander of the Muppet performers has gone unchecked.

    Why, probably for the same reason I’ve been saying all along -- because having multiple performers operating the Muppet characters is bad for the brand. If they sign up -- for example -- for a three-month Disney cruise, that’s three months worth of substitute performers working the mainland. Doesn’t matter who those performers are, doesn’t matter they’re paid, it’s the fact that there’s more than one of them per character.

    That’s the fundamental issue, and that’s what it’s been all along.

  6. Craig Crane

    Craig Crane New Member


    I think you are missing the point here, or making one **** of a mountain out of a mole hill.

    A: They're not yours to save. At the end of the day, they are a business asset. A consumable product, no different from a Big Mac or the Golden Arches.... what they do with them is up to them, and I very much doubt they wouyld venture into such an operation without due care and consideration for both the brand and its core performers. If you really want to save something, put all your energies towards helping the poor kids in Africa get clean water. Every little bit helps. I think at present, your energies are misplaced.

    B: As I already stated in a previous post earlier on, I dont think any of your fears will ever become a reality. If you have any doubts about this, see point A.

    and finally

    C: There is nothing even remotely libellous in the 2nd quotation your post.
  7. Kynan Barker

    Kynan Barker New Member

    Thanks for your response Craig. Unfortunately, I don't buy it. The argument that Disney is a big company and big companies don't make mistakes holds very little water with me. The fact that MHC has thought a great deal about their plan doesn't mean I agree with their decision and there's a whole lot of other Muppet supporters who feel the same way as me. Yes, the Muppets are consumer products, and we're just exercising our rights as consumers.

    And sure, of course there are bigger causes and more important issues. Billions of people are facing life and death decisions every day. But since this is the Muppet Central Forum, maybe we can take it as read that folks here do care about the Muppets, just a little bit, at least for the brief time that they actually spend here.

    We could add a disclaimer to every thread here, pointing out that the color of Floyd's jacket in Palisades' sixth wave or the availability of Antron Fleece in Wisconsin aren't, in fact, issues of major import on a wider global scale. Or we could just accept the fact that we're all free to choose what we want to care about at any given moment.

    For me, while I'm here, I choose to care about Save the Muppets. And in my spare time, I've got some other stuff going on.

    Over Under Around was not only falsely accusing the Muppet performers of orchestrating a worldwide fan campaign against their employer, he was also accusing them of doing it because of a grudge. I'm just pointing out that anonymously making unfounded accusations about real people like that isn't necessarily a good idea. And the dangerous thing about libel is, it's not up to you or me to define it. That's up to, you know, lawyers.

    So, to be very clear: This isn't a vast Muppet performer conspiracy. It's a fan campaign. And we're running it because we care about the future of the Muppet characters.

    It's really that simple.

  8. a_Mickey_Muppet

    a_Mickey_Muppet Well-Known Member


    why dont u JUST give up dude! :confused: this has ALMOST been goin on for 1 year now! Disney IS BIG and you ARE SMALL.... it doesnt matter if 1, 4 or 100 are behind you... Disney STILL gonna do what they want. I say IF YOU REALLY wana do somthin, move down there and get a job at Disney/MHC. other wise, JUST STOP/GIVE IT UP. my thing is with you is DO you have any PROOF what so ever as to what Disney/MCH plans? ha.. i mean so far you havnt proved any-thing to make me (or other MC members) think that Disney plans on re-casting Kermit, Piggy, Pepe, etc. un-til i see (or hear and I'm a Disney stock holder, and i hear things ALL THE time) that you or Disney puts somthin "offical" on paper or the net, then thats when i'll belive you! as fans we can say and DO what we want... but in the REAL WORLD, NOT everything happens/ or works.
  9. OverUnderAround

    OverUnderAround New Member

    Hi Kynan, nice to see your name pop up at MC again.

    I'll stick to my quote, this was told to me by someone who knows them and this was their feelings at the time (months ago), and not from a personal opinion of mine.

    Ah, Kynan, I don't know how to word this without giving anything away, but don't believe every press release you read. It's actually the opposite, you'll see in time.

    ILuVERNIE New Member

    don't even believe in gossip either... they are full of LIES!
  11. Fozzie Bear

    Fozzie Bear Well-Known Member

    Just checking in to be sure everyone's playing nicely! Ha ha.

    From what I understood, even those who did get to the Orlando workshops were cut down to a dwindling number, so for all the money spent and all 3 cities and all those people who auditioned, 10 or fewer people went to Orlando and fewer stayed after the week was over. Even so, Diz doesn't have any idea what to do with the performers they kept because it seems they don't know what to do with the characters except ride on the wallets of the retrospective fanatics like us. Speaking of which, i'm ready for my TMS Season 2 DVDs!!

    To really REALLY Save the Muppets, I wish the campaign would turn in a new direction and start pushing for some new projects to put the performers they want to see remain perform in: movies, TV specials, tv movies...anything that is directly MUPPET and not a "Muppet visits/guests on" show.

    Aren't the Sesame Workshop folks holding their workshop in the late summer or early fall?
  12. a_Mickey_Muppet

    a_Mickey_Muppet Well-Known Member

    HECK YEAH!!! I'm with ya 100% on that Foz! :) ;) :D
  13. Kynan Barker

    Kynan Barker New Member

    Well Mickey Muppet, I guess I'm just going to have to admit that I can't convince you. But that doesn't mean that I don't have a case, and it doesn't mean the campaign should end.

    My purpose in this thread is to make sure the Save The Muppets message is clear and to respond to any counter-arguments. Since your argument is simply that you don't believe me -- something you've made very clear over many posts -- then I think the best thing is to agree to disagree.

  14. Kynan Barker

    Kynan Barker New Member

    OverUnderAround, it doesn't seem like you're standing by your accusations, it seems like you're distancing yourself from them. From what you're saying above, it looks a lot like you're trying to have your cake and eat it too. You want the comments to stand, but you no longer want to take responsibility for them.

    Nowhere in your original post do you suggest that the sentiments in it belong to anybody but you. The post was under your name, it only makes sense that the comments came from you. If you want to disassociate yourself from those comments, you should do so.

    But whether you believe the veracity of the rumors you posted or not, you're still guilty of spreading gossip about the Muppet performers. Which, slander aside, is a clear breach of Muppet Central Forum Rules:

    I don't know what the forum procedure is for issues like this, but I trust Kevin does, and I'm sure we can rely on him to follow that procedure.

    And as far as your last comment goes --

    -- again, I can only reiterate that the One Muppet, One Voice campaign is currently focused on MHC's plans, and that in our opinion Sesame Workshop doesn't currently present a threat. You and your mysterious sources may know better, but in the absence of any real information, it's not a priority for us.

    And finally, thank you Kevin for the suggestion that the One Muppet, One Voice campaign focus on issues other than One Muppet, One Voice. Unfortunately, our mission statement precludes us from diverting our attention from the Save The Muppets cause at this stage, but of course, other fans are free to petition MHC on any issue they deem important.

  15. OverUnderAround

    OverUnderAround New Member

    This is so lame, it doesn't deserve a response, and your attempt to get Kevin involved at perhaps censoring me shows me what an ego-maniac you are.

    Sorry dude, you're no longer worth my time... or anybody's.
  16. a_Mickey_Muppet

    a_Mickey_Muppet Well-Known Member

    all i'm sayin is... until u show us PROOF on paper (or an email) from Disney/MHC... then you have your self a case!!!!
  17. Kynan Barker

    Kynan Barker New Member

    OverUnderAround, maybe I'm misreading the rules, and maybe you're well within your rights to post unfounded gossip about Steve Whitmire, Dave Goelz, Bill Barretta, and Jim Lewis. But this is a moderated forum and everyone here has to play by the same rules. If you're in breach of those rules -- and you know what? I really think you are -- then there's a procedure for that.

    I happen to think the truth is worth fighting for, and I happen to think that the Muppet performers of all people don't deserve to be the target of your lousy, spiteful rumormongering.

    Again and again I try to bring this back to the point, which is: This is a fight about principles, not about people. We're doing this because we believe in the Muppets. No matter what crap you try to throw at us -- conspiracy theories, name-calling, whatever -- it's still going to come down to what we believe in.

    We believe in One Muppet, One Voice.

    I don't know what you believe in, but if it involves making up lies, smearing reputations, acting superior and ridiculing those of us who care, then I don't even know why you're here.
  18. Jackie

    Jackie New Member

    Petitions are wonderful things. They get things done. Look at BlueFrackle's Bring Back the Magic petition! He took action and brought us season sets of Fraggle Rock on DVD. There wasn't much argument about that. No one said "It won't work BlueFrackle. It's hopeless. You're just one man!" Lots can be accomplished if someone is dedicated and does something about it. I admire people who take action, whether I believe in the cause or not.

    There are many battles out there. Every day people are petitioning for and againt things like abortion, the death penalty, disease research, funding for schools and various other organizations, etc. There are always two sides to every argument. Everything can be argued. This thread is just an example of people arguing for the sake of arguing. People are arguing to gain attention and to be in the spotlight. Others are arguing for a cause they believe in, but it is still pointless arguing.

    I am torn on the issue. I do believe that there should be one Muppet one Voice, but at the same time I believe in all of my friends who are out there for auditions. Many of them are afraid to post because of the possible backlash they may receive. Others are afraid to lose the friendships they created over so many years because of this one promising opportunity. I want them to be accepted and follow their dreams...something Kermit always taught us to do.

    So, I do not know where I stand but I do know that I respect the petition and believe that it can only bring good things to us as Muppet fans. I do not see how it can do any harm. No one is being hurt by the petition so I can't see why there is so much hatred and argument going on here.

    Also, I think if you believe in something you should take action and do something about it. Starting argument after argument only creates anger and resentment. Follow what you believe in. If you don't like someone else's beliefs, don't drill them. Find others to support you. There is no one right or one wrong.
  19. JJandJanice

    JJandJanice Well-Known Member

    It's wasn't just one person who brought us Fraggle Rock. Even before Hit people have been waiting Fraggle Rock on DVD, and I've seen a bunch of petitions on the net for it. Plus once Hit got the rights to Fraggle Rock, a lot of people would call them and email them and such. So one person shouldn't get all the credit for that. I'm just saying.

    But I do agree with everything esle you said Jackie.
  20. Muppet Matt

    Muppet Matt Active Member

    I just signed.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page