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Discussion in 'Feedback' started by D'Snowth, Sep 6, 2009.

  1. D'Snowth

    D'Snowth Well-Known Member

    Wow, I can't believe this thread is still open... I'm shocked, lol.

    I have to admit Jamie, your post about being gay is a way of life, not a lifestyle or a life preference was rather insightful, though I'm sorry I chuckled a little when you said "its a way of like", I'm sorry, but that's always such a running gag in entertainment - "It's not just a whatever, IT'S A WAY OF LIFE!" But in all seriousness, what you said makes sense, I know a lot of scientists try to find "genes" that make you gay, while at the same time, religious leaders would argue that they could be straight, but choose not to, but in all honesty, how DO we CHOOSE part of our personalities and who we are? Unless someone were so clueless in the subject of love to say "eh, I'm not having any luck with the opposite sex, maybe I'll try the same sex for a change", you really can't choose whether or not you're straight, gay, bi, confused, etc. I know I've said this before, but I have to say I'm still appauled at the way so many conservative Christians handle the subject of homosexuality; they seem to overlook a few of the Lord's teachings when it comes to gay people, because as God's children, we are to love one another as we would love ourselves, and as such, we're not to be judgemental of other people... somehow that's getting lost in translation, because you've got all of these extreme religious groups bashing gays simply for being gay, but God is not about hate, God is about love. I could go on about the issue, but I'm not here to preach, and playing on both sides of the fence can be an issue in its own right - as always, for more of my insight on this, look for a blog entry I did years ago.

    And I have to say, I've been down a similar road RedPiggy mentioned, though not Muppet-related, it still was in the fanfic world; one key scene in a fanfic I wrote involves two distressed characters (of the same gender) in a very bleak, and hopeless situation, with one trying hard to comfort the other, while trying not to break down herself... that is all it was supposed to be, a simple comfort scene between two upset individuals, though so many others saw something extra in that scene. That actually was my fault, I had previously put the two in bed with each other for an illustration, but again, and while it was somewhat kinky, it wasn't meant to be taken THAT far... as a result, after that pic was seen, a lot of those same people felt there were undertones to the comfort scene, though it wasn't my intention. Again, I'm mostly a writer of comedy, but occasionally I HAVE to branch out, expand and challenge myself in new ways, so drama's a bit of a stretch for me, but I try. I guess it's a good thing I never try to come up with a lot of Muppet fanfics, hardly anybody seems to read my fics here anyway, but then again, I'm not a part of the fanfic clique here, and as such, my stories tend to go un-noticed, but that's okay.

    I don't think any of what I just said makes sense, or if I'm still brain-rattled from working my butt off practically all day yesterday and not getting to bed until 3:00 am...
  2. CensoredAlso

    CensoredAlso Well-Known Member

    Very well put! Well you know it's usually the extremes of either (and any) group that cause the problems.

    I just saw an old silent film from 1929 about the fight between an extremist athiest and extremist religious person. The subtitle described them as "Intolerence vs. Intolerence." I think that says it all. ;)
  3. D'Snowth

    D'Snowth Well-Known Member

    That makes sense to me; I have to admit, with the exception of some who purposely look for trouble, ala "The Amazing Atheist" from YouTube, I've found that often times, it's the atheists who are more compassionate and tolerant towards all kinds of people, in general, than Christians.

    But yes, once again, it's the extremes of each group that are the sources of the problems and issues, and the extremes are usually very narrow and closed minded about said issues; being the rare seed that I am (yes Virginia, Liberal Christians do exist), I tend to and try to be a bit more open minded about such touchy, and sensitive issues... after all, again, we're ALL God's children, and it takes ALL of God's children to make the world go 'round.
  4. CensoredAlso

    CensoredAlso Well-Known Member

    Yeah I mean obviously I see both intolerance and compassion from both sides at different times, depending on the person and situation. People are people. We just like to put labels on ourselves and each other and that causes much of the confusion, hehe.

    I like to describe myself as a Hippie Christian, though I think I might have gotten that from a Tough Pigs article awhile back, lol.
  5. GelflingWaldo

    GelflingWaldo Well-Known Member

    As I said earlier: just because (1) someone's initial question has been answer or the main issue of a thead has passed, why shut down any further discussion from occuring? And (2) if a member has crossed the line, is attacking others, and is breaking the rules, then deal with that individual and those posts. Why stop all the rule-abiding members from discussing an issue just because one person comes in and oversteps the rules? Don't punish everyone just because one or two people can't behave.
  6. MrsPepper

    MrsPepper Well-Known Member

    Thank you for articulating exactly what turns me off about this site.
  7. frogboy4

    frogboy4 Inactive Member

    :cool: Cool insight. That's always the weird debate. Militant people exist in all groups from gays to Christians and for some reason they're the ones pointed out as the average example rather than the extreme. Most people fall somewhere in the middle of things.

    There are gay folk that like parades and parties just as their are Christians that like to hand out pamphlets and attend rallies. Ingraining those events into a life translates into a lifestyle and a choice. One person loving another person and the two people wanting to build a life together is a basic human need and not a lifestyle. There are many folk that disagree with gay relationships, but there are a lot of straight people we all know in relationships that don't seem right or ideal to us. But in the end it's not our business.

    That's basically it. There are other technicalities and a lot of head butting in other areas, but that's what it boils down to. Acceptance and not conversion. We settle for tolerance, but much of that can be condescending and still leaves us with poor terms like "lifestyle" directed toward gay people.

    Heck, if it were a lifestyle that would be easier, but in many ways it can be harder because acceptance doesn't come easily for us. After coming out to friends and family - some actually abandon us. Christianity isn't always embraced by families, but it usually is. There's a support system there that is lacking in the lives of many gay friends of mine. And then, of course there are many gay folk who see themselves as Christian as well. That's another can of worms I won't open. :eek:

    Back to the point. I look at MC as a place for everyone and in order to get along we all have to make a few sacrifices. That's where I see imbalance at times. - - The deletion of posts won't bring us to a better understanding. That is certain.
  8. CensoredAlso

    CensoredAlso Well-Known Member

    Well let's face it, extremists are more fun to watch on TV. Average people are boring, hehe. ;)
  9. D'Snowth

    D'Snowth Well-Known Member

    Save for Seinfeld. :p
  10. CensoredAlso

    CensoredAlso Well-Known Member

    Nah that's boring too. Hehe ;)
  11. theprawncracker

    theprawncracker Well-Known Member

    Ugh! You stole my punchline! :zany:
  12. CensoredAlso

    CensoredAlso Well-Known Member

    Uh uh, still boring! Though jokes ABOUT Seinfeld can be funny! :p ;)
  13. D'Snowth

    D'Snowth Well-Known Member

    I had to, you were charging people a buck a glass! I only charge 50 cents! Who wants another?
  14. GelflingWaldo

    GelflingWaldo Well-Known Member

    I wouldn't call Kramer, George, Jerry, and Elaine "average people." They were pretty much extremists too - albeit extremists about the small things, social decorum, petty injustices, and airline peanuts.
  15. Fozzie Bear

    Fozzie Bear Well-Known Member

    Two pages of unhappy posts, many posts are folks repeating each other differently.

    It's not what makes for good forum fun, so:

    What is the happy medium?

    We have been through this last year as a group, and explanations then as to how each moderator works were given. I even pointed out that at another forum, such as Wizard magazine's forums, ghostbusters.net forums, or even the Star Wars Fan Force forums, explanations are never given: member accounts/threads/posts are all deleted without explanation. Really, Phillip has allowed a lot of freedom on this forum that just absolutely does not exist at other fansites.

    Each moderator does their job differently here, and honestly you can see the patterns in threads and you can tell exactly when a thread is about to go downhill. I agree with Phillip's assessment to wait and let that happen and then do what moderation has to be done.

    But, whatever damage has happened at this point is done. What can be a good medium point so folks feel good posting here, and we moderators can do our job?

    Frankly, at the present time, The Count is doing all the moderating and is supported by the rest of us. I have things going on that only allow me to come here once in a while, and when I come here? I find too much infighting in this family between members, and I cannot understand it.

    My point is: 1) be more patient and understanding of each other. 2) STOP posting before you think--it's much better to walk away and then return later when it's been thought out; posting angry helps noone. 3) USE THE IGNORE BUTTON! It will help tons with some of you who don't want to deal with certain other members. 4) be more willing to accept each other as an individual and not be judgemental--you're typing into a computer to someone who, on the other end, HAS FEELINGS. Be respectful of that.

    I will say that I have friends of every race, color, creed and religion. It's important to me to feel that kind of acceptance from other directions, and I try to let those same people feel loved and accepted. I am sometimes contradictory and say things which come out in ways I don't mean them to sound, but my friends know that anything I say I mean in a positive way--I hate conflict and I hate confrontation. It's easier to have a life that is smooth-sailing, and I'm still trying to find that myself.

    But, it never happens. It seems all roads lead to rocky travels.

    That said, we are (supposed to be) one whole family, and anything that is said against one another, flaming each other for being gay or Christian, hating on new (ie: 20 year long) voice performers...you know the drill...it shouldn't be here at MC.

    Yes, discuss and debate; but, be civil about it. I've done and said things myself in the past years and I regret it, of course. Usually because someone automatically accepts what I've said as negative rather than the way it was meant; but, being on a forum nobody can see facial expressions or hear vocal tones to understand the emotion or inflection of what's being said leading to miscommunication.

    I would suggest we just simply try to think before we post, and then things wouldn't happen to cause thread closures or deletion.

    I doubt anybody likes reading through 3 pages of argument, as I found recently in the "Muppets Diplomacy" thread. I asked if posts should be deleted, they said yes. I found it was easier to close the thread and reopen the topic (I posted links to the new thread).

    Understand: Nobody here is doing anything because it's a fun-button to delete or close, but in trying to keep this place a fun forum to visit for new folks and senior members alike there is a HUGE task in front of a moderator, and being a member is easier: You know how to handle yourself in public when you're out with your friends and family and it's the same way on a forum--everybody wins!

    What do ye reckon?
  16. frogboy4

    frogboy4 Inactive Member

    Hiya Kev! I agree with you for the most part. There have been a few strange incidents of arbitrary edits in the form of thread titles and even spelling corrections that also go a little far. You always employ the soft-touch. Here as well!
  17. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    Listen... I have to say this... he has derailed numerous threads from time to time, whining and picking fights with ANYONE who wants to discuss any topic. He picked on someone innocently saying "Gee, I can't wait for Season 40 of Sesame Street." and basically turned the thread into whine and moaning about how people have opinions thread..

    check it out here

    This poster in the past has nagged and nagged members who want to discuss things in an intelligent, inquisitive nature, and turned threads into instant flame wars. Not to mention that he once shared very inappropriate thoughts about Gabi (making borderline sexual remarks about her feet), and actually got reprimanded by a moderator for that... and he even filled an innocent youtube video thread with tickle fetish videos.

    I am not saying the member should be banned... but given his history, some moderator needs to take action.
  18. Luke

    Luke Well-Known Member

    It's about time there was some action, you have threads about Robot Chicken being closed yet someone with that consistent posting history kept on here.

    I know mods haven't got an easy job, and they have better things to do than sniffing out foot fetishists, lol .... but hopefully they can put a sock in these problems and we can clean the air around here. It'd be nice in the longterm to see the entire site get a new lease of life ... fresh content, happy forum moderated by a few mods who spend a lot of time on here. I'm not really into fanfics and dorms/games but its like thats all this place is nowdays. No offence to the people who enjoy that though, its great, just not my thing.
  19. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    I have seen people banned for less, much less than mikebennidict's shenanigans. Frankly, I'm sick of them. I put him on ignore, and a lot of others have.

    I still think he should've had some more action taken with his "tickle" videos. This IS a family forum after all.
  20. CensoredAlso

    CensoredAlso Well-Known Member

    This is true.

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