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Discussion in 'Muppet Headlines' started by Traveling Matt, Aug 12, 2002.
have you seen timepiece?
That was in no way a drug related film. Sure Jim could have been experimenting, but I find the film to be very interesting and groundbreaking.
such low moral caliber? how do you know? don't judge people from what you see on t.v. and of all places mtv.
Well tomahawk, I will agree that we only see what we are shown. But, what do you think they will show if they are on with the Muppets? And still, if they know we only see what they show us, why don't they show us better things? Were obviously going to feel quite negitive about a convict preforming with or characters, and if they don't like it, thats really just too bad. They can either stay on their side of the fence, or seriously clean up their act and educate themselves (especially Snoop "I can put a sentence together" Dogg) to fit in with our society. I don't care how they live, as long as it doesn't clash with our entertainment.
As for Timepiece, I think because of the nature of this thread your post was misconstrued. You've got to be specific, especially in this type of thread.
o.k. if you really want to know how i feel about this(and this will be a little long). we have basically fallen on a slippery slope. if we want to make moral judgement calls on who the muppets are working with lets think back a bit.........hmmmmmm. you'd lose probably half of your guest stars on the muppet show(alice cooper),same goes for the muppet movie(richard pryor)and hey what about weezer who just recently had a song(hash pipe) that had to be edited for of all places mtv.
i could go on forever about people who worked with the jim henson in the past'present and future. as far as i'm concerned this company has always been about pushing the envelope,making great art and making me laugh and feel and grow and learn. its all about drawing way outside the lines.
we all have our opinions and thats great. but when you get into a judgement on peoples morals or whats good for someone else,thats where the slippery slope begins.
Re: slippery slope
I get everything your saying, and to a certain extent I agree. My opinions sparked a pretty big thread of controversy, and I'm not into having that again. Let me just make a few comments.
Alice Cooper - This guy I truely believe never preached a word he followed when he was famous. He worked the angles of shock culture perfectly, and got lots of money for it, which I think is great. (same with Marilyn Manson...I think the guy is a master of giving the kids what they want, and he deserves every penny he gets for it) Now Alice Cooper live in a lovely house in Florida (not that far from me...maybe an hour and a half I think) and plays golf every day at a country club. Nothing wrong with him to me.
Richard Pryor - Okay, I can see the problems here. But you do have to remember, when he was in the prime of his career, African-Americans were being descriminated against heavily still. I think his comedy was good, because it gave them a reason to laugh at the hatred, which is always a good way to heal it. Also you must know, he was a brilliant man with a good head on his shoulders. So he's also OK by me.
Weezer - Yes we had a bit of a discussion on Weezer's "Hash Pipe" and "Dope Nose" songs with drug-related messages. But I believe Weezer is a bit different from the gangsters in question. They are kind of the white nerdy pot smokers, which are (in my opinion) less offensive. Don't get me wrong, I DO NOT IN ANY WAY condone the drug related songs. I think, though, that A) Keep Fishin' was a good video to do for the Muppets because it was undrug-related and actually a nice message in general and B) it showcased a happy Weezer, instead of any anger or depression that is all to many times present in the videos of those types of bands.
Now, those are my two cents. I don't want to get on the "Slippery Slope" any more than you do, so I'll just leave it at what I said, and will not comment on the morals of anyone anymore (except for Ryan, because I find him totally immoral and I think he sets a bad example for the rest of us...hehe, JK Scoot, I think you rock hard )
I completley second everything you said. I agree with you completly.
<< except for Ryan, because I find him totally immoral and I think he sets a bad example for the rest of us...hehe, JK Scoot, I think you rock hard )>>
don't get me wrong, i love richard pryor,but back in the day he was also well known for a lot of drug related problems. there is one famous story about fire and him running down the street.
look i didn't want to start anything. just stating my opinion.
really i love all of my muppet friends even though i've probably never really met any of you. BIG HUG!!!!!!!!!
Re: Re: slippery slope
The same really goes for Mr. Dogg. You don't actually think he's running around shooting people, do you? He was only on trial once for "murder." But even then he was only on trial as an accomplice. Trying to see if he had ordered his bodyguard to kill the guy. Snoop saw a childhood friend making money off of 'gangsta rap,' so he joined him.
It's like Doctor Dre -- he used to be a thug, and now he's not. He moved passed it. He tried making an album about where he is now. About being a successful African American man, and it didn't sell. So on his wifes advice, he went back to "I'm gonna shoot you with my gat" style of rap, because it sells more.
Heck, even MC Hammer joined the gangsta rap scene. Even the New Kids on the Block did. So you really can't judge an author from his book.
And why is being a whiteguy and a potsmoker more palatable? Smoking pot is smoking pot. It's not dependant of your skin colour. Nor is it better depending on the subculture you subscribe to.
"Please hammer, don't hurt 'em."
Re: Re: Re: slippery slope
Well, while he's probably not out shooting people right now, I do believe if he was put in a position with someone he disliked and he just happened to be "packin' heat," I sure that person would be dead. His lack of judgement and action upon impulse has proven that before (when he beat up some fans outside a show in Miami for asking for his autograph.)
I know the deal with Dre, and although its true, hes also not someone who should be with the Muppets. I really don't care whats beneath the surface of these people, because what the world will see is what they are shown. Not everyone is going to dig around and look for the truth, they are going to only see what they see, and know what they are told. So even though Snoop was an accomplace, he will still be seen as a two-bit thug in many peoples eyes, certainly my own. Same with everyone you mentioned (with the exception of NKOTB, because no matter what they do or did, they were just a boy band and noone would believe them as gangsters.). So I don't care who the person is or what they are like off camera, because if they act like a gangster on MTV, it reflects poorly on the Muppets. End of Story.
As for white Rivers-type pot smokers, they always seem to be harmless (the ones I know anyway). And I'm not talking about just white guys, its the type of person. The straighter, nerdy looking guys who are destined to become computer techies. Doesn't matter the skin color as long as they fit the criteria.
PS - Ryan, don't go shooting me now...lol
Snoop Snoop's okay with me
I don't have a problem bringing him in with the Muppets for a special. What upset me was Frank Oz's trashy turn in appearing in "An American Werewolf In London," exposing Kermit and Piggy in a film which features, among other things, an extended sequence inside a porno theater and also features Kermit and Piggy in the credits. I was mortified. I'd like to know what Jim thought of it.
Re: Snoop Snoop's okay with me
But...Kermit and Piggy get it on in the Muppet Movie in Piggy's dream sequence! LOL!
Re: Snoop Snoop's okay with me
What's wrong with An American Werewolf in London? It's a fantastic movie, and Frank shows what a wonderful sense of humour he has with his cameo in that film (and a few other John Landis films).
And I'm pretty certain Jim would have loved it as well, as Landis played a cameo in Muppets Take Manhatten (which was directed by Oz).
Snoop Dog- Degenerate Programming
Parents, don't be fooled by Henson Production. Snoop Doggy Dog's name was coined due to his obsession for a particular sex act. This person is neither wholesome or an appropriate role model for your children. He proudly, degrades women and is obsessed with doing it- "doggy style." Where is your leadership Mr. Rivkin? How unwise of you to glorify this degenerate and incorporate this vulgarity in children's progamming.
Ya See!! Even his very name is derived from vulgarity. It is NOT OKAY THAT THIS GUY IS WORKING WITH THE MUPPETS!!! Thanks for ressurecting this post, Patty, I wanted to say something here but I forgot while it was still a hot subject. Why do we need to have the urban crowd into the Muppets? I don't see the need for that. Also, why does everyone automatically assume more people will be watching just because he's on? Suppose not a soul in the targetted zone (which I'm sure is what they are looking at, a "targeted zone") watches. Then, it reaches no one they wanted it to get to, and all the people who do watch see him in it, and that's just bad for the Muppets.
resraint, calm ,back away from the computer. i am a nicer more well adjusted tomahawk.
while i'm still not a fan of the person, i do have to say a couple things. first off, it was my understanding that he got his name because when he was a kid, his friends decided that he looked like Snoopy, and the name stuck, though it's mutated over the years to sound "cool".
secondly, Matt...please re-read your last post, as i think i know your character well enough to know that what you wrote probably had a better sentiment behind it than what it sounds like. but it sounds pretty bad. just thought i'd point that out so someone new to the group doesn't see it and think bad thoughts...
I strongly agree. The Muppets are for everyone. Thats why they always have a varity of stars on their shows and specials. I'm sure that there are other guests that have performed with the muppets who have skeletons in their closets that you just don't know about, and who are not "wholesome and pure" as they might seem. Yeah you might not like the music he puts out, or his views on things but there might be some muppet fan out there that does and is very excited to see him perform with the muppets. I'm not a Snoop fan, but I have no problem with him being in the movie at all.
thog, i totally agree with you. i mentioned these same things earlier in a thread about past performers who had worked with the muppets. maybe snoop is just too threatening.
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