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Speculation: Potential Sequel for "The Muppets"

Discussion in 'Muppet Headlines' started by bknatchbull, Mar 1, 2012.

  1. beaker

    beaker Well-Known Member

    He better be! Walter is the best thing thats happened to the Muppet gang since Pepe in 1996!! :) Walter to me was such a big breakout surprise.
    kyunkyua, DannyRWW and Muppet fan 123 like this.
  2. beaker

    beaker Well-Known Member

    That's why it's so funny how Ernie and Bert got created. Bert totally is Oz on a lot of levels, as Ernie represents Jim. I mentioned this in the gay speculation thread, but of all the funny dichotomies reflecting the actual puppeteers, the Ernie/Bert thing is just genius.

    It bothers me not if Frank Oz flat out disowned the Muppets. He hasn't, thankfully. He appears in the amazing new film Being Elmo, and he was involved with the NBC Rockefeller Muppet attraction opening.

    I DO take issue with Muppet veteran insiders not writing or at least having a big role in shaping the next script. WE NEED Pepe and Rizzo to be in it a lot.

    I say let Kurt Thatcher direct it. I loved Letters to Santa, which to me I enjoyed a lot more than the new film in some ways.
  3. beaker

    beaker Well-Known Member

    I say ratchet up the realism, seriousness, and forget about appealing to the computer generated kiddy movie demographic completely. They can go watch Garfield, Smurfs, Alvin, etc if they don't get the magic of the Muppets:)

    I mean again, Muppet Movie 1979 and Muppets Take Manhattan 1984. These were very grownup, real world movies. No fantasy gimmicks(sides from Animal growing gigantic), no pandering. They'd almost be considered independent movies now in style and theme, and I think it worked wonders. Kids movies today are way too slick. G-force? Cat and Dog type movies? Cgi/live action hybrids? Nothing compares to the magic of 80's family films and I doubt they ever will
  4. D'Snowth

    D'Snowth Well-Known Member

    I was surprised that Pepe and Rizzo were pretty much neglected in the movie, especially considering that Pepe was used quite heavily in the trailers and promos and such, but then again, there's the "point" that the movie was intended to focus more on the core of Muppets that made up the Muppets during the height of their popularity in the 70s with TMS, which Pepe wasn't a part of, and Rizzo wasn't around until the final season (and subsequently in MTM).
  5. heralde

    heralde Well-Known Member

    If they thought that would bring in the money, they would do it.
  6. zoebell

    zoebell Active Member

    but wasn't that steve and eric? that's what i mean, i feel like kermit and fozzie's dynamic was resurrected for the first time in years when eric took over frank's characters

    correct me if i'm wrong, but i really don't remember kermit and fozzie having much interaction at all during the whole decade of the 90s. and actually another thing that kinda bugged me in those years was piggy. i feel like she changed after jim's death, and i think it had a lot to do with frank not having jim to play off of anymore, in appearances and stuff. but again, when eric took over, after a few years i think she really came back in a big way and now kermit and piggy are great together again
  7. Borples

    Borples Active Member

    I think it would be nice if they had a mix of people from the latest movie and more veteran Muppet talent working on the next one. Let's face it, Segel/Stoller/Bobin had more success--commercial and otherwise--than the Muppets had in many, many years. However, the nostalgia-trip angle they took for this movie worked ONCE. The next movie needs to realize that the Muppets were alive and kicking and growing and TOGETHER for all these years. And if Bobin and Co. weren't paying any attention to the Muppets during that 20 year span, they ought to bring in somebody who was.

    Which is to say, I agree. Give me Rizzo or give me fan riots! ;)
  8. charlietheowl

    charlietheowl Well-Known Member

    I'd like the next movie to have an ensemble approach, sort of like how each Muppet got their own little scene to themselves in Muppets Take Manhattan. I'd like to see Rowlf, Scooter, the Electric Mayhem, the "second-tier" muppets be able to get some screen time, and that's the sort of category where Pepe and Rizzo can fit in. A muppet movie is always going to have a lot of Kermit and Piggy and Fozzie and Gonzo, but I think that one of the largest strengths of the Muppets is their well-stocked bench of characters, and I'd like to see that used.
    We Got Us and Borples like this.
  9. Borples

    Borples Active Member

    Nope, as I understand it, that was Frank. According to Muppet Wiki, those bits were filmed in the late 90s, but not released until the S2 DVDs came out. And Frank played all his characters. For confirmation, in a Tough Pigs interview with Eric (and Steve and Matt), they were talking about the Muppets.com clips with Animal and his bunny. And Eric mentioned that the bunny came about b/c of Frank going on about bunnies in an Animal interview once. Which would have been The Muppets on the Muppets. And if you listen to Animal, that is DEFINITELY Frank's Animal. Piggy does sound distinctly weird, though. She doesn't really sound like Frank's Piggy. But she doesn't sound like Eric's Piggy either. Maybe Frank had a cold. *shrugs*

    Anyway. Pretty sure it was Frank.
  10. Muppet fan 123

    Muppet fan 123 Well-Known Member

    But there was a whole movie introducing him, so if Walter's there then Gary has to be there too, and if Gary's there, Mary's there too.
  11. heralde

    heralde Well-Known Member

    Not necessarily, it's a well known staple of sequels to make some convenient excuse as to why characters played by high profile actors don't reappear. ;)
  12. charlietheowl

    charlietheowl Well-Known Member

    I don't really think that Walter would have to mean Gary and Mary appear. If they're playing with continuity like they have between movies in the past (like everyone going to the same college in MTM), Walter could just be a part of the cast. I could see him as a sort of assistant to Scooter.
    We Got Us, Muppet fan 123 and Borples like this.
  13. zoebell

    zoebell Active Member

    oh, i didn't know that. i assumed those were made for the dvd. and yeah, piggy sounded so weird in those clips i saw that i figured it couldn't possibly be frank
  14. MrBloogarFoobly

    MrBloogarFoobly Well-Known Member

    I wouldn't blame Frank Oz for being difficult. Working with Steve Whitmire must be weird for him. He built a working relationship with Jim Henson for, what was it, 40 years? Suddenly, his best friend, performing partner, and mentor is dead, and he has to work with this kid. I know Whitmire was part of the mix for a while, but Oz's characters didn't really mix much with Whitmire's. It's different.

    As for the Muppets on Muppets interview, Piggy DOES sound strange. It sounds like a weird combination of Frank Oz and Eric Jacobson. I'm not sure who the heck it is, listening to it. At times, it's very much Oz. At other times, it sounds too weird. Animal sounds like Oz.
  15. zoebell

    zoebell Active Member

    is it maybe not eric OR frank? it does sound awfully weird. i did a double take when i first heard it

    i don't blame him for that either. he and jim were such a team for so long, they knew each other's rhythms, etc. it must be strange to have to force that kind of natural rapport with steve, who was so much younger as well. it's interesting because even though kermit/fozzie kind of faded in the 90s, they still had to basically force the kermit and piggy relationship at times, and it's just different. you can tell, they're not quite the same together
  16. beaker

    beaker Well-Known Member

    Yeah it's like they merely lived in this world where the Muppets were just a 70's to early 80's thing. No Pepe, no Rizzo. Heck surprised Bobo was in it, as there was no Robin. Yes, it was crazy amazing to have Uncle Deadly as a main character and to see a lot of Behemoth, Luncheon Counter and so many "whoah never thought we'd see those guys again". But it felt like the movie was made by people who haven't been a fan of post Jim Henson era Muppets.

    I want to see the writing and magic of the muppets.com and youtube 2008-2010 viral videos. That to me is a direct lineage from the Muppets we all know. I want to see the real magic back. The magic we last saw with Muppets at WDW and Muppetvision 3d and then in some of Muppets Tonight and Muppets.com videos.

    Ive come to really like MFS strangely enough, I think in part because of some of the character dynamics.

    In Muppets 2011, while we get this amazing opening monologue, and great scenes like Fozzie in Reno Nevada and Kermit/Piggy having a serious grownup talk in Paris...we also get a lot of just long stretches that to me didn't feel truly Muppety.
    And Gonzo...what was up with him? He might as well have not even been in it.
  17. RedPiggy

    RedPiggy Well-Known Member

    Without Gonzo, who would've been integral to the ending? I mean, I guess Crazy Harry would do, but considering the "happy part" of the ending depends in large part on Gonzo, it's hard for me to believe "he might as well have not even been in it."
  18. zoebell

    zoebell Active Member

    rizzo HAS to be in the next one. i wonder if he's in any of the deleted scenes? i'm surprised they didn't give him at least one little scene, like pepe got. rizzo's a fan favorite too
    jackdelayne likes this.
  19. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    The thing about the movie is that it was a brand re-launch. If it stood alone, it wouldn't have been that important a movie, and even the entire comeback plotline would be foolish in retrospect. Even though it did well, a sluggish box office season and 3 other kid's movies (though they didn't do that well, and only one of them was of a measurable quality... I wish Hugo was released at a different time, I really do. I'd have probably seen it if it was) quelled its potential. However, the DVD rentals and Blu-Ray sales are going to pump a LOT of life into this film, causing a LOT of those who waited to say "I wish I saw it in theaters." And that leads to more people rediscovering the Muppets and wanting to see a follow up film of some kind.

    Of course, look at the Muppet Wiki domestic Box Office table and you'll see the only follow up movie to do better than the one before it (at least domestically) was MTI after MCC. But I'm sure MCC makes it up in home video.

    Like I said before, Rizzo didn't have a sizable role until MTM... and even the character didn't really evolve into anything remotely like we know until after the show ended. I don't see why he wasn't an assistant or exec at the plumbing company that Gonzo owned, but then I'd see him just taking Camella's role in the scene... and quite honestly, Gonzo needed to get back with Camella. We want early Steve Martin Gonzo after all. It's a shame that most of his stuff (and I'm sure of it) was all in the deleted scenes. But at least they focused on Kermit's closeness with Fozzie.

    Pepe at least had that one scene, but it's not like Disney's neglecting the character by any means. Sure, he had like that one scene, but he was all over the promotions, had that incredible plush toy, and if the Magic Potato doesn't become the next big internet meme, there's no justice in the world.

    But the thing it, there were TOO many dang Muppets in the film! They got in everyone they could, and I have to respect that they got long lost characters in major scenes. I can trade that for a little Rizzo and Pepe for one film. I'm assuming the next time out, they'll have a bigger part for them.

    I'm still not crazy about a full on sequel. I think Hangover 2 was made not so much to make money, not so much to entertain fans of the first (it actually didn't), but rather to say "this is what sequels are, people! Rehashes of the first film. Most films don't need them." The thing came off as a huge expose from what I hear. I'm hearing a Cloudy with a Chance of Meatballs sequel (the working title is Revenge of the Leftovers)... personal feelings about the movie aside, what the heck else can they do there? I'm sure they're going to wind up throwing the Smurfs back into present day real world for no reason (making it all the more inexplicable) turning it into an even more brainless rehash instead of focusing on a solid plot in their Middle Age world. All Hangover 2. Rehashing the movie with different scenes.

    So all I could see for a direct sequel is either a 102 Dalmatians 180 off a 180 where Tex Richman all the sudden wants the land for oil again... or something involving the Moopets trying to get revenge. And even under the best writers, those ideas don't sound so good. I'm sure Stoller and Bobin know that The Muppet Movie wasn't followed by The Muppet Movie 2 where Doc Hopper comes back as a cyborg, bent on personally destroying Kermit and eating his legs... leading them to have to escape via another road trip. So I don't think there's that much to worry... it's just an issue that needs to be addressed.

    Personally, I DO want to see Walter come back, and also Miss Poogy. Make her a bartender in a short scene or something.
  20. LouisTheOtter

    LouisTheOtter Well-Known Member

    Touching on a few themes that have come up here (thanks to everybody for their great discussion, by the way - I've really enjoyed reading these posts):

    1. I'm in "I'll believe it when I see it" mode (absolutely no offense meant to theprawncracker) but I'm enthused to hear even preliminary reports that Bobin and Stoller are back on board - and, as mentioned earlier, these reports are popping up before The Muppets even arrives on DVD and Blu-Ray, which should give this already-successful "comeback movie" another huge boost.

    2. The movie can work with or without Segel, on-screen (the return of Walter doesn't necessitate the return of Gary or Mary) or off (I'd be heartbroken if he wasn't on board at all but I trust Bobin and Stoller to get this right, although I wouldn't mind seeing Lewis or Oz in the mix - and might a certain Oscar-winning Mr. McKenzie come back to write some more great songs???).

    3. While the nostalgia undercurrent drove the plotline and appeal of The Muppets, I think the youth/child audience will come back for a second movie. I was delighted to see so many kids and teenagers in my field of vision embracing both the movie and the characters, and I think a generation conditioned to repeated viewings will embrace The Muppets in DVD/Blu-Ray mode, further strengthening a younger audience base for a follow-up. (Don't forget, Shrek 2 did a lot better than Shrek at the box office, and I suspect this is because the first movie's quality and charm surprised a lot of people and whetted appetites for a sequel.)

    4. Like many here, I'd rather not see a direct sequel. The Muppets did what it was supposed to do - reintroduce the characters as well as the balance of heart and laughs that has made so many of their previous productions fun to watch. Turn 'em loose in a fresh adventure that isn't as reliant on past glory (or the lack thereof in recent years). And, with all due respect to MCC and MTI, let them play themselves.

    5. I'll echo DrTooth's comment that there may just have been too many Muppets crammed into the most recent film. Don't get me wrong, I loved the great "all hands on deck" TMS vibe in the second half of the movie and it's sometimes fun to play "Who Do You Recognize?" but not if it distracts from the flow of the film or denies other characters their chance to shine. Count me in on the "More Screen Time for Gonzo, Rizzo and Pepe" camp (and I'd throw Rowlf, Robin and the Electric Mayhem in there for good measure - maybe even Johnny and Sal too).

    All things being equal - seriously...here we are in early 2012 chattering about a Muppet sequel, let alone a new Muppet movie...how cool is that?!?!
    Borples and Muppet fan 123 like this.


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