The complete and utter futility of being a fan of anything...

[Drtooth]

This just totally has finally gotten to me. If this sounds negative, well, it's coming from a negative place.

Have you ever noticed that in a so called fan base NOTHING is ever good enough for anyone? No matter how much effort goes into something, it's never good enough... and how a labor of blood, sweat, tears, and love is exactly the same as someone throwing something terrible with no effort or care into the world?

People ask for a show to return, and the episodes aren't good enough... people want something with the characters on it and it's not good enough. Nothing's good enough. The 03 TMNT cartoon was the worst thing in the world (except for new He-Man which, frankly is almost EXACTLY the same except for the Canadian voice cast and animation that let them DO stuff), because they weren't goofy and didn't say Cowabunga a hundred times. But then again, it they made the exact same cartoon, it still would be the worst thing in the world because it would be a retread with nothing new.

Why DOES everything have to measure up? Nothing ever does, but that automatically means no one should try? Nothing beats the old LT shorts, but should the characters be shoved into a box and forgotten after that fact? Seriously, Taz-Mania, Duck Dodgers, and Sylvester and Tweety Mysteries were ALL good for WHAT THEY WERE! it never matters if something's good for what it is. Why the heck is that?

The only thing that matters to said "fans" is TERRIBLE fan fic where everyone just bonks each other and bad new characters with no personality steal the spotlight.

To quote Murtaugh of Lethal Weapon... "I'm too old for this [stuff]!" Somehow, I'm glad I'm never going to be a cartoonist. I'd hate to have to measure up to everything else out there. I'd hate my characters having to stay stuck in one project for eternity because it's the ONLY good project.

 

[Redsonga]

I can't say I feel that way and I'm a fan who writes fanfic and keeps villains in character. So because I exist your idea about 'everyone' not finding anything is good enough and only writing bad OOC fanfic is not true ^.^
Just saying, it seems a bit like sour grapes.
I mean when I become a published author I will have to go up against everything else out there and if people like it write more in whatever I make. Does that mean I will have to write more in one universe that is the same? Maybe, but that is not stopping me from having more than one universe all together. When you write in one universe there is actually going to be moments where it is not as good, from a writers pov, not even a fans. If fans are bright enough to pick that up more power to them, but you keep writing/drawing/cartooning anyway because in that action is how things get better and get fans in the first place .

And if that sounds like it is coming from a positive place, it is, not because I have gotten any breaks at all or don't know the negativities of fandoms but in spite of it. Yes, in fandom since I was 14 and I still believe. Even though my CP makes drawing hard and published writers are always saying give up, at 28 I simply don't. And that is not in vain

 

[DH]

When you're creating something artistic, you HAVE to better what has come before, your JOB is to measure up. If you don't keep trying then your work will degrade into worthless trash without you even noticing.

What you're talking about is giving somebody a free ride just because they tried. This requires you (the viewer) to take part in imagining something to be better than it is just to avoid confrontation or hurting people's feelings. This is delusional at best and career ruining (for the artist) at worst.

People want a show to return because they enjoyed the quality of that show. There are many reasons for this quality but you seem to think that it's okay for someone to continue the franchise in name/character only just to keep everyone happy. This helps no one and only leads to worse shows.

I hope you get over this bad patch and learn to look at things objectively, there is no need to take sides or feel hurt by what other people say on some stupid forum.

 

[Drtooth]

I have no real problem about fan fiction at all. But think about it this way. If they made new episodes of anything based off certain fan fics, the same people who would tend to write those would pan them. Fan fiction/fan art is a WONDERFUL way to keep something going unofficially, don't get me wrong. Ever hear of Sonic the Comic online? A fan created content of a long beloved and long ended comic version of Sonic the Hedgehog in the US.

My problem stands with if a classic thing is brought back, there's no distinction between something effortless and crappy like the Underdog movie, and something careful and calculated like, let's say the New Muppet movie or even the Looney Tunes show?

I hated the new George of the Jungle. Not because it's different from the old series, not because they changed everything... but the fact it was changed to be dull, unremarkable, and like everything else on TV at the time. I think if done right ANY character deserves to be brought back for another generation. Granted, a lot of it is done terribly, BUT a lot of it is done quite well.

What drives me incredibly wild is some "fans" aren't open to new programming with new characters, yet crap all over new media with old characters. If that's the case, everything is completely pointless and nothing should ever be made again, right? I hate internet cartoon "fan" speak that says Animaniacs, Invader Zim, and Batman TAS should be run on an infinite loop. If we never had anything new, we wouldn't HAVE Animaniacs, Invader Zim or Batman TAS to begin with. And if we had shows like that with the same style of humor, we'd consider it ripoffs of Animaniacs, Invader Zim, and Batman TAS. And here's something... Batman TAS fans are closed to The Batman or Brave and the Bold... HEY! Guess what! People that grew up with Super Friends and the 1960's cartoon hate Batman TAS! Every stupid generation thinks their crap is the best, why deny a future generation of theirs?

No one and nothing is an end all be all. Yes, there are cases. Certain movies shouldn't be sequeled. Some are too timeless to even need them... but favorite characters of animation and puppetry should never die. Looney Tunes shouldn't disappear because Termite Terrace did. Muppets shouldn't disappear because Henson's gone. Mickey and Co shouldn't die because Walt's been gone for decades... heck, most of the newer Mickey stuff (preschool show excluded) was superior in theme and style to some of the old cartoons.

 

[AndyWan Kenobi]

I don't think this was meant as a criticism of fan-fiction writers so much as a general expression of frustration with "fandom" in general, though there certainly is that aspect of it.

But really, I do understand this frustration. A lot of people just can't find enjoyment in any new iteration of anything they once loved. Sometimes that's because the new stuff isn't very good, but sometimes it's just because the person in question is different than when they first enjoyed it. Maybe their fandom is fueled by general nostalgia. Or maybe people just get cynical. I think part of it is that when we're kids, we tend to just enjoy what we enjoy and dismiss what we don't. But as adults, so many people feel this need to be armchair critics of everything, especially the things they enjoy. We nitpick, analyze, and fuss over everything until there's no joy left.

Now, not everyone does this--certainly not everyone does it to the same extent. But it seems to be the case in online fandom. Obsessive ranking and measuring up with the past is almost always going to leave the newer material somehow falling short. As Weird Al recently tweeted about the reviews of his new album "It's really good, but not nearly as great as (whichever Weird Al record I listened to when I was 12)". Nobody ever says, "Things are JUST AS GOOD AS THEY USED TO BE OR BETTER!" Sometimes that's a fair critique, sometimes it's more about the reviewer than the art.

It makes me think back to the oft-told story of Carrol Spinney's first meeting with Jim Henson, where after a performance gone wrong, Jim said "I liked what you were trying to do." I've heard Jim described as a tremendous appreciator as well. And isn't that what being a fan should be about? Especially on a forum dedicated to one of the most well-balanced, optimistic, positive forces in entertainment? It's so easy to be cynical, to give up hope that a new version of something you love will fill you with the same feelings you had when you first fell in love with it. But those are impossibly high expectations, because something new is different, and your appreciation of it is different based on age, perspective, and familiarity.



As for me, I'm going to go on being a fan--an optimistic, excited, appreciative fan--of the things I love. New Simpsons and Futurama episodes still make me laugh out loud a few times per episode, and what more could I ask? A new Weird Al album is still worthy of a national holiday! I'm always going to be first in line for new Star Wars or Indiana Jones, because I LOVE THEM! And the Muppets? Well, that's just my heart and soul right there. And if these things somehow don't turn out to be exactly what I would have expected or hoped? Well, then, I'll find what I like about them, appreciate it, and forgive the rest. Because that's how love works.

 

[Drtooth]

People want a show to return because they enjoyed the quality of that show. There are many reasons for this quality but you seem to think that it's okay for someone to continue the franchise in name/character only just to keep everyone happy. This helps no one and only leads to worse shows.

What's the point then? Nothing's as good as anything. New programs don't measure up to anything, new versions of things aren't good.

No one's getting a "free ride" because they try! No one can ever measure up to something that's become art. No artist can paint like Leonardo DiVinci, so why paint?

I like quality. Why does that automatically mean something that came out eons ago should be reran into oblivion and nothing new should ever happen? Why is nothing ever enjoyable for what it is. I NEVER compare any new Muppet media to the old stuff. I never think that Korean animation studios that do Tv LT shows are as good as Chuck Jones. Does that mean we can't have writers who grew up and were inspired by this stuff to basically do a dream project?

I seriously can't wait until Seth MacFarline's Flintsones comes out to here everyone whine about how terrible it is, even though Hanna Barbera when both alive made some TERRIBLE Flintstones cartoons themselves. Everything is realtively pointless.

But really, I do understand this frustration. A lot of people just can't find enjoyment in any new iteration of anything they once loved. Sometimes that's because the new stuff isn't very good, but sometimes it's just because the person in question is different than when they first enjoyed it. Maybe their fandom is fueled by general nostalgia. Or maybe people just get cynical. I think part of it is that when we're kids, we tend to just enjoy what we enjoy and dismiss what we don't. But as adults, so many people feel this need to be armchair critics of everything, especially the things they enjoy. We nitpick, analyze, and fuss over everything until there's no joy left.

Now, not everyone does this--certainly not everyone does it to the same extent. But it seems to be the case in online fandom. Obsessive ranking and measuring up with the past is almost always going to leave the newer material somehow falling short. As Weird Al recently tweeted about the reviews of his new album "It's really good, but not nearly as great as (whichever Weird Al record I listened to when I was 12)". Nobody ever says, "Things are JUST AS GOOD AS THEY USED TO BE OR BETTER!" Sometimes that's a fair critique, sometimes it's more about the reviewer than the art.

You know what really drives me up the wall? When something comes out, the better part of the fans LOVE it, then one or two little stuck in nostalgic cloud fans hates it, nitpicks... years later the entire fanbase hates it. Like the New TMNT cartoon. Even stuff that continues with its original creators isn't as good as it used to be. it's like... what the shell is the point?

 

[Redsonga]

I do think some series are better than others but I don't think that should stop people from even trying and make them stop before they start you know? Because even the so called better versions of series had there bad spots, but they grew, they became more and gained fandom through it all. Is fandom a little crazy? Sure, but that should not stop anything anymore than a boo on stage should stop a play...It's just, they aren't all fans.
There are no 'well you tried' awards for shows or books, but there are the awards of never stopping trying when you finally do make something good after all your hours or not so good work. The awards for trying in of itself usually come from your friends, family, or people that work on the same thing you do with you. If people don't agree then they don't become fans and you go back and work on something else

What about the times when someone who dislikes a show isn't actually hating a show because of nostalgic reasons (even if they grew up with it) but because it is simply not to their tastes and they believe something like its theme isn't true to what the show was made to be? (Basically the show changes but not the persons taste) Does that make any fan of a series that disagrees with the direction a series is going always wrong and killing whatever it is? :\
Not everyone is going to like something simply because it carries a series name, so I can see how if someone has a different idea about what they take away from a show in the first place they could become one of those crazy angry fans..but to have it stop more shows ever being made? I really think good series can outlast any sort of fandom press if they are worth it. It could take years for them to forget the 1980's Christmas cartoon version but in time, in time...

 

[Drtooth]

I do think some series are better than others but I don't think that should stop people from even trying and make them stop before they start you know? Because even the so called better versions of series had there bad spots, but they grew, they became more and gained fandom through it all. Is fandom a little crazy? Sure, but that should not stop anything anymore than a boo on stage should stop a play...It's just, they aren't all fans.

Thank you!

If it's one thing that bugs me it's purists that are afraid of small changes in something that's well done. Look at the new Batman movies. Everyone loved them until some man children that want a very specific version of the character said everything was overrated... now EVERYONE says their over rated, and no one likes them anymore. Yet, if the Joel Shoemucker movies carried on like they were going to, we'd have some of the worst films of all time. Some characters are designed to bounce back and go in and out of popularity. Some aren't.

I always want new stuff... new cartoons, new movies, new stories for old characters. If they're bad, you can ignore them and the next thing will always be better, at least than the last thing. Looney Tunes again. Baby LT and Loonatics were both terrible garbage, but so weren't some of the 1960's shorts. Ever see Injun Trouble? P.U.

 

[Redsonga]

I have seen Injun Trouble..Although I never cared for the one where Bugs Bunny gets beat up by a little green man in the air force yard ether and that is always being put out as THE LT WWII cartoon it seems like...

 

[Drtooth]

The only 1960's ones I liked were the experimental ones Chuck Jones did based on avant guarde books. Like the Dot and the Line for example.

The ones with Speedy and Daffy are dodgy, especially strange considering those are my two favorite. I find the 90's theatrical ones, while no match at all for the classic 40's and 50's ones, a hundred times funnier than those 60's ones. I LOVE Superior Duck (or whatever that one was where Daffy was a superhero that was a prisoner of superlatives from the announcer). And I really dig some of the BIA era theatricals, especially Drone Wars. And I find all of them, EVEN the 60's one superior than some of those terrible 1930's ones. Boscoe the little UnP.C. term for African American Boy? Did anyone ever see those ones? They're awful.

Any character and any classic program has some dodgey elements. The old TMNT series had some bad seasons, and a LOT of repetitive alien technology episodes that just aren't memorable... The Mutagen Monster was poorly written. Meanwhile, I like the new series just the same... but the part about the Alintians, Fast Forward, Back to the Sewers... that stuff wasn't that good either. Though I find the inclusion of Casey Jones, more Usagi Yojimbo episodes, and 03 version of Baxter Stockman steps above the old one. But even when the old one was popular, they had some terrible easy reader books and those... music videos. the Christmas special wasn't even so bad it's good. It was just bad.