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The movie could have been even better (article)

Discussion in 'Muppet Headlines' started by beaker, Nov 29, 2011.

  1. Muppet fan 123

    Muppet fan 123 Well-Known Member

    We never actually see the contract in TMM. That's one thing that got me annoyed, becuase then we see it in The Muppets.
  2. Alvin

    Alvin Well-Known Member

    And the contract in The Muppets says they sign away the theater and the name...never gives any implementation of that in TMM.
  3. CensoredAlso

    CensoredAlso Well-Known Member

    Wow I guess Orson Wells had more sinister plans than we thought! ;)
    Muppet fan 123 and DannyRWW like this.
  4. DannyRWW

    DannyRWW Well-Known Member

    He did once devour several planets and a lot of transformers once....alsways seemed sinister to me.
    CensoredAlso likes this.
  5. CensoredAlso

    CensoredAlso Well-Known Member

    Yup, he's got the touch, he's got the power. ;)
  6. beaker

    beaker Well-Known Member

    LOL, Peter Linz is one of the most exciting assets going. His Walter character is a watershed moment...people had their doubts about Walter a year ago, but my goodness that little guy in the film and in youtube interviews is just very much amazing.

    Also my title is "could have been better"...are you saying the film was 100% perfect in your eyes? To me when comparing it to the magic of the original films, I just do not see how that could be. The film contains a lot of amazing scenes, it just felt like something was off in parts. Now, the critics unanimously praised it, so that tells you that it did hit its mark with non fans. But as hardcore fans, we should be allowed to dissect it. It's definitely not an issue of being ungrateful. It's a film made for modern times that needed to be made.
    blackaerin likes this.
  7. Pinkflower7783

    Pinkflower7783 Well-Known Member

    No it couldn't have! The movie was perfect!
    Bannanasketch and DannyRWW like this.
  8. Beauregard

    Beauregard Well-Known Member


    And also, having read the originally pitched script, my feelings are, "This movie could have been a lot WORSE!" I think that Jason, Bobin, the good folks behind the scenes at Disney, Pixar writers and probably Muppet-insider-on-staff-writers managed to make a revolutionary Muppet movie that blew away almost everyone's expectations.

    Perhaps this movie can be like Terminator 2 and have new alternate versions released every few years with scenes added and taken away.

    I think because I was more focused on the "Together Again" storyline and the "Pig/Frog Love" storyline, I wasn't to bothered by the patchy work on the "Oil Plot".
    Pinkflower7783 likes this.
  9. Pinkflower7783

    Pinkflower7783 Well-Known Member

    I was too!!! I love Kermit and Miss Piggy!! They were so cute in the movie!!! It's so nice to see in interviews now Kermit admitting him and Piggy have been together for a long time!!!
  10. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    We don't know to what extent, but I'm sure Jim and Kirk guided them through the film. If nothing else, we have proof of their hand in the "Kermit wouldn't live in a mansion" part by, let's face it, a FAR better concept of a house Kermit and Piggy bought back during happier times that Kermit still maintains and holds onto singlehandedly. That's much more in tone with the Muppets and the overall movie than just a success spoiling Kermit tone.

    Usually when you hear about movie changes, that's a very bad thing... the end of I Am Legend was destroyed by a test audience... Studio Meddling ruined Looney Tunes BIA (including a lost concept of Yakko, Wakko and Dot being in the water tower when it crashed). But in this case, it seems to have saved the film, and made it better. I hope Kirk and Jim guide Nick and James through this second film as well.
    Pinkflower7783 likes this.
  11. CensoredAlso

    CensoredAlso Well-Known Member

    No offense to at all to them, but when a script is made better it isn't always the case that the veterans were the ones to do it. Star Trek II was hugely successful, yet written and directed by a completely newbie who'd never watched Star Trek a day in his life.
  12. Borples

    Borples Well-Known Member

    I think the performers had a good bit to do with keeping things appropriately Muppety, too. If I remember right, Jason Segel and Nick Bobin have said as much. They also talk about the "Muppet Bible" that was given to them, but I'm not sure where that came from? I assume it was Jim and Kirk and whoever else is hanging around Muppet Studios these days.
  13. frogboy4

    frogboy4 Inactive Member

    Sure the movie could have been better and it could have been worse. Let's face it, most people expected it to be worse! They were in the impossible position of having to be all things to all people and magically, whatever they did worked. For the most part.

    Sure, I have an endless list of notes, but who's to say that wouldn't have soured the experience to some people? To me, this was more than a film. This was a movement that brought back he Muppets and I hope that the next film will smooth over the rough edges of this ambitious re-launch. There will be more confidence with the next one. I'm sure the production team took note of the criticisms peppered among the mostly glowing reviews so that the next movie will do even better.
    kyunkyua likes this.
  14. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    In this case the vets are in charge of Disney quality control. That's the main thing. Notes about Kermit being in the mansion and that the Muppets rarely ever refer to themselves as puppets (and when they do, it's a sly little aside done cleverly). Plus, I'm sure the Muppeteers made darn well sure the characters were as close to the characters we know and love.

    However, it was that very same outsider angle that brought passion and vision to the film. Left to their own devices, as great as Jim and Kirk are doing they would have made some weird gimmicky movie we just couldn't get excited about at all. Maybe even another (gasp) classic retelling. And with C-List at the moment stars that fit poorly. I wouldn't be surprised if Schnooky or whatever that trilobite's name is would have a pointless cameo.

    The Muppets showed such a brilliant blend of insider and outsider cooperation.

    The Star Trek movies... I can't really comment on. I've heard even fans hated them, except a couple... the same ones that are absolute purists that forced themselves to hate the 2009 J.J. Abrahms movie that everyone else in the world loved. I actually JUST started watching Star Trek's original series care of MeTV, and I can see what the problem might have been. There's such an amazing style the show has, and it broke some barriers that never needed to be broken again. It left all too soon leaving animated adaptions, movies, novels, new generations and all that... they probably just didn't have the same feel no matter how hard they tried. And that's probably the problem. They tried too hard. Outsiders sometimes have better vision because the vets think inside the box too much.
  15. CensoredAlso

    CensoredAlso Well-Known Member

    It's not really accurate to say the fans "hated the movies." Star Trek fans traditionally "hate" the first film and were a bit disappointed with the 5th film, Insurrection and Nemesis, but the overwhelming majority of Star Trek films were very successful with fans.

    The 2009 film has tons of potential and I enjoyed it, but Wrath of Khan it is not, lol.
  16. Pinkflower7783

    Pinkflower7783 Well-Known Member

    I'm just gonna say and I do it too and that the fact of the matter is, is Jim is gone and so as much as we would like to think "does the film live to what Jim would have wanted or what would Jim have done" The Muppets are on their own and they have to find their own way without Jim. As Jim said in a video of A Muppet Family Christmas "It looks like their having a good time, I like it when they have a good time." And I think that's all Jim would have wanted "Just seeing his creations have a good time."
    Nasubionna and frogboy4 like this.
  17. CensoredAlso

    CensoredAlso Well-Known Member

    I agree and that's why I enjoyed The Muppets (2011) because it was the first time I'd felt that in awhile. :)
    Pinkflower7783 likes this.
  18. frogboy4

    frogboy4 Inactive Member

    There's no way they can be Jim's Muppets again because he's gone and that kind of walking on eggshells doesn't make for good comedy. Well, unless they are physically walking on eggshells. I can't imagine that wouldn't be funny. The most important thing is that they can and did honor Jim. In fact, I think last year's film is the first big project to do just that whole-heartedly.
    Beauregard and theprawncracker like this.
  19. Pinkflower7783

    Pinkflower7783 Well-Known Member

    Yep and nobody is Jim and nobody will ever be Jim and that's okay. It's sort of like Walt Disney they the animators had to find their own way as well. Even one of the animators at Disney at one point said that "hey were not Walt and we need to find our own way our own path."
    frogboy4 likes this.
  20. CensoredAlso

    CensoredAlso Well-Known Member

    Yeah I mean I don't think anyone minds them finding their own path as long as it's not a complete 180 from Jim (or Walt's) vision, which I would argue it has been occasionally in the past.
    Beauregard likes this.

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