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The movie could have been even better (article)

Discussion in 'Muppet Headlines' started by beaker, Nov 29, 2011.

  1. frogboy4 Inactive Member

    I've seen both companies take bizarre detours after their creators passed, but nothing as extreme as a 180 degree turn. Well, at least not on the Henson/Muppet front. That's rather extreme and would definitely have caused an enormous outcry. However, many can argue that the inclusion of so many headlining minorities in Disney films is quite a departure from the projects Walt would have approved in his era. For whatever reason. I'm glad the times have changed!
  2. heralde Well-Known Member

    That is one instance where it's good that they departed from Walt's vision, lol. It's a reflection on how much society has changed since the '30s.

    Me too, lol. :)
    frogboy4 likes this.
  3. frogboy4 Inactive Member

    I hadn't realized Sesame Street had been banned in Mississippi for several months in 1970 due to the integrated cast members and children. It's particularly shocking seeing that Jim Henson was from Mississippi. And all of this wasn't really that long ago! How far we've come and I think Sesame has helped. Let's hope all the Muppets continue to lead against modern prejudice by example.
  4. heralde Well-Known Member

    I didn't know that either but I'm not that surprised. The only reason we have any integration on TV today is because a handful of pioneers in the '60s and '70s had the guts to stand their ground as opposed to bow down to the all mighty ratings system.
    frogboy4 likes this.
  5. muppfozz Member

    I was saddened when the Muppets did not get their theater back. It just showed another bad guy winning. evil is good ......The Muppets would have got lots of money on a telethon. There are plenty of people who care. I think it would have been better if they had raised the money and got the theater back and still stayed a happy family.
  6. Oscarfan Well-Known Member

    Technically, they did get the theater back, during the credits.

    And did you pay attention during Kermit's final speech? They didn't need the theater to be a family. They needed each other and that was enough.
    Bannanasketch, frogboy4 and heralde like this.
  7. Drtooth Well-Known Member

    That kind of pacing was the only problem I had with the film. I kinda wish they did that sequence before the credits and THEN had Gary propose... better pacing is the only thing that really could have improved this movie. Of course, then it probably would be 2 hours... that's a luxury they only give to Harry Potter and superhero films.
  8. muppfozz Member

    Speech ? That theater is part of who they are. As for the getting the theater back during the credits............The place where I saw the movie .......I had to look around people who where leaving...... They just jump up and fly to see who can get out the door the fastest. Lots of times we are the only ones left in the place when the credits are still rolling........ I thought that speech was kinda of corny. I just thought of something.....We are soooooo into the Muppets and lets just turn on the news for today........ Muppets take me away .
  9. muppfozz Member

    Would it be great of there really was a talking frog and pig...... Gonzo where are you....
  10. MelissaY1 Well-Known Member

    I think a lot of movies out there get the crap edited out of them for various reasons and some films end up suffering in the end because of it. The Muppets is no exception. I liked this movie a lot more than I expected, to, but I was not wowed and amazed by it like a lot of the fans were. Maybe I'm kind of jaded, maybe I'm more critical, I don't know. Maybe it was overhyped and I was expecting something more, I could never put my finger on it.
    Perhaps seeing the edited scenes would make a lot more sense and make it a more cohesive film. I still would've liked to have seen what Frank Oz would've done with it, personally.
    frogboy4 likes this.
  11. muppfozz Member

    With all those people watching the telethon , they all must have only given a Penny.....I think that Miss Piggy could have saved the day by pulling out a roll of money at the end of the telethon ......That could have been her shining moment because everybody puts up with all of she demands and ways.....Of course, she is such a strong woman/pig.
  12. Drtooth Well-Known Member

    I'm going to say this to my dying day... but 30 seconds of song that basically introduce a key important plot point getting cut has no rationality behind it. I've seen stuff that was cut for flow, things that just ad to the enjoyment but aren't completely needed, exchanges and pauses that actually say more than words and give you a breather... but 30 seconds of song WITH plot point? I completely fail to see the necessity in that one.

    Still, I don't get the necessity of having to cut 7 seconds of Oogie Boogie dance either...
  13. muppfozz Member

    Yes, there was something missing but I think every since Jim Henson died that there is a BIG hole .......Muppets from Space was weird. My favorite will always be The Muppet Movie I guess........The Rainbow Connection was good on this movie when Kermit and gang sang but it did not top Kermit singing from the first movie......Those moopets singing PLEASE !!!!!!! NOOOOOOOOOOO !!!!!
    heralde likes this.
  14. MelissaY1 Well-Known Member

    Yeah, I mean it's easy to say "Everything they've done since Jim died has sucked" cause that's far from the truth: I loved Muppet Christmas Carol, Muppet Treasure Island, Muppets Tonight while I didn't love it as a cohesive show week to week, I did enjoy some skits, characters and musical numbers on it. I like Bear in the Big Blue House, Sesame Street can still be funny though I haven't caught up with it in ages sadly. I think the biggest thing they've suffered is the lack of having good writers. That's why Sesame Street is still funny and making people talk with the skits they've done in recent years like the spoof of the Spiderman Broadway show, etc. They still to this day have some of the greatest writers on TV. But the regular Muppets, since Jerry Juhl has passed I've noticed something severely lacking.
    That's why I would've loved to have seen what Frank Oz would've done with directing or writing another Muppet film. I think he's one of the few left of that original hardcore group that really understands the Muppets. The humor now just seems kind of forced, dumbed down a bit, etc. its' just not the same.
  15. frogboy4 Inactive Member

    I agree with a lot of what you're saying. Don't get me wrong. I like the movie a lot, but not as much as my friends. It's good spirit and vibe smoothed over the rough patches. I think it got bogged down by trying to be all things to all people. This is the project that really needed to cross boundaries. It's the new ambassador for the franchise. Honestly, I don't think Oz was the right person for that job anymore. I don't think he understands how much Jim's and his absence affected the Muppets or how audiences weren't so quick to jump back into the action where Frank left off. It kind of took this film to cleanse the palette.

    I know people were upset that Oz seemed stuffed aside in favor of Segel. Frank's the best Muppeteer of the group and a fine director. He's had the clout and opportunity to spearhead a Muppet film for years and it took Segel's fan interest to light a fire under everybody. I'm glad Disney respected that and went with the guy with the most follow through. Frank's a busy guy and he paid his dues with the Muppets, but the dubbing of his characters in MT and MFS crippled the spontaneity of the group. For some reason he just seemed so far away from the gang. I would like to see him helm a future film. I'm not sure his recent statement, however carefully worded, would really help that along.

    I just hope they bring more of the fun to the next Muppet movie. More of the Muppets actually singing and dancing and more Rizzo and Mayhem!
  16. Pinkflower7783 Well-Known Member

    As I said before unfortunately Jim is gone...and as they say in show biz the show must go on. I think in my honest opinion The Muppets have found their way just fine without Jim. Yes I believe after Jim's sudden passing it took them awhile to find their ground again but I think their finally back and have found their place. Plus The Muppets can't really be who they were back in Jim's time they need to be up and current with today's society. Even if Jim was alive today he probably would've done the same thing keep them classic but updated. Disney is also trying to appeal to a new generation who didn't grow up with The Muppets not just to us old folk. Lol!
  17. heralde Well-Known Member

    I see young people on the Web all the time (even outside the forum) loving the classic Muppet films, with no desire to update or change what the Muppets were in the past. If something's classic, it doesn't need to be updated.

    When the Muppets transitioned from the '70s to the '80s, I grant you they changed clothes and musical styles, lol, but not their comedy, not the foundation of what made them the Muppets in the first place.

    To me, if certain members of the "new generation" don't want The Muppet Movie because it's not "up and current," then they don't deserve the Muppets, lol. It's harsh but I more go with what's been said about the Marx Brothers: if future audiences don't like their comedy, then there's something wrong with the audience, not the comedy. ;)
    Bannanasketch likes this.
  18. Pinkflower7783 Well-Known Member

    Another good point I just feel we can't keep saying "What Jim would have done or what would Jim think today" Because frankly we'll never know what Jim would have done we can only speculate. I for one am just thrilled The Muppets are back at least to me in their glory and back where they should be.
  19. heralde Well-Known Member

    I was also happy with the new film because it was the first time in a long time I felt I was genuinely watching a Muppet movie. :)
  20. Pinkflower7783 Well-Known Member

    Me too! Trust me for awhile I was not happy with where they were going with The Muppets but then they weren't really with any particular company they were kinda just being thrown around and not given and real groud. But I think their in good hands with Disney and I believe Disney will make sure that they keep going. I was just thrilled to actually see a Muppet movie on the big screen. I was only able to catch the classic movies on TV when I was younger so I was just beyond happy to actually be able to go to a theater and see them. Because I wasn't even born yet when the first movie and the muppet caper came out. and I was only a year old when Manhattan was released.

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